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ΤΙΣ as self reference?!

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ΤΙΣ as self reference?!

Postby akalovid » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:25 pm

In the third section of his ΚΑΤΑ ΜΕΙΔΙΟΥ Demosthenes says:
Nh
3] οὕτω δὲ τούτων ἐχόντων, ὅσα μὲν παρ᾽ ἐμοῦ προσῆκε φυλαχθῆναι, πάντα δικαίως ὑμῖν τετήρηται, καὶ κατηγορήσων, ἐπειδή τις εἰσάγει, πάρειμι,...

The translation by Murray on http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0073%3Aspeech%3D21%3Asection%3D3 reads:

This being so, I have in your interests taken all due precautions, and now that the case is before the court, I am here...

Since it is Demosthenes who filed the complaint and later withdrew it, probably without giving the speech, why does he use ΤΙΣ and not something to denote himself, for instance:

κατηγορήσων καὶ εἰσάγων πάρειμι
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Re: ΤΙΣ as self reference?!

Postby Paul Derouda » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm

I don't really know these law terms or the context, but I don't think that τις refers to Demosthenes. Here's how I understand this:

καὶ κατηγορήσων, ἐπειδή τις εἰσάγει, πάρειμι...
"Now that some one is bringing (=has brought) [this matter before the court], I am here to accuse him (Meidias? Not "someone")."
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Re: ΤΙΣ as self reference?!

Postby akalovid » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Paul Derouda wrote:I don't really know these law terms or the context, but I don't think that τις refers to Demosthenes. Here's how I understand this:

καὶ κατηγορήσων, ἐπειδή τις εἰσάγει, πάρειμι...
"Now that some one is bringing (=has brought) [this matter before the court], I am here to accuse him (Meidias? Not "someone")."


Yes. This is the normal meaning. But I wonder how this is meant, since it is always repeated (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_Meidias) that it was Demosthenes who filed the complaint and later retracted it, probably without oration! Or perhaps, that view must be revised, if we find more bits like this?

It would be a great (though not Linguistic) question, if it was advantageous or customary to have proxies file the suit. Whether this increased the credibility of the accusations and so forth!
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Re: ΤΙΣ as self reference?!

Postby Hylander » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:37 am

According to MacDowell ad loc., τις is the magistrate (thesmothetes) who arranges and presides over the case. He is the individual who εἰσάγει the case. I guess D. would have to submit the complaint to the thesmothetes, and the thesmothetes would allow the case to proceed.

See Aristotle, Athenaion Politeia 59.1-2:

οἱ δὲ θεσμοθέται πρῶτον μὲν τοῦ προγράψαι τὰ δικαστήριά εἰσι κύριοι, τίσιν ἡμέραις δεῖ δικάζειν, ἔπειτα τοῦ δοῦναι ταῖς ἀρχαῖς: καθότι γὰρ ἂν οὗτοι δῶσιν, κατὰ τοῦτο χρῶνται. ἔτι δὲ τὰς εἰσαγγελίας εἰσαγγέλλουσιν εἰς τὸν δῆμον, καὶ τὰς καταχειροτονίας καὶ τὰς προβολὰς ἁπάσας εἰσάγουσιν οὗτοι, καὶ γραφὰς παρανόμων, καὶ νόμον μὴ ἐπιτήδειον θεῖναι, καὶ προεδρικὴν καὶ ἐπιστατικὴν καὶ στρατηγοῖς εὐθύνας.

The Lawgivers are responsible, first, for preparing lists of the days on which the jury-courts are to sit, and then for giving them to the officers, for these follow the arrangements that the Lawgivers assign. Moreover it is they who bring before the People indictments, and bring in all votes of removal from office, preliminary informations sent on by the Assembly, impeachments for illegal procedure, proceedings against inexpedient legislation, a suit against a President or a Superintendent, and audits imposed on Generals.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0045%3Achapter%3D59%3Asection%3D1
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