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Yet more Wheelock muddling...

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:24 am
by Einhard
Hello again,

Just after working my way through the P&R from Chapter 27 of Wheelock, and no. 1 gave me some difficulty. It goes:

Quisque cupit quam pulcherrima atque utilissima dona dare,

and I translated it as:

Each person desires that most beautiful (thing) and also to give the most useful gifts.

I used "quam" with "pulcherrima" as the acc.f.sing relative pronoun, and didn't relate it to "dona". Is that correct? Or, if not idiomatically, could it be ok in a literal sense?

And speaking of literal translations, P&R no. 6

Ostendit hostes ultimum signum luce clarissima illa nocte dedisse,

is tranlsated in benissimus' key as: He showed that enemy had given the last signal on that night with a very bright light,

which ticks all the boxes, literally and idiomatically. My initial translation was:

He showed the enemies that the last signal was given by night from this very bright light.

Obviously mine is a bit clunky but I think it is, literally at least, one possible translation. Is it? Or am I missing something?

Again, thanks in advance,

Einhard.

Re: Yet more Wheelock muddling...

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:19 pm
by adrianus
Salve Einhard
quàm [adverbium cum superlativo] celerrimè curro = I run as quickly as possible
dona quàm [adverbium cum superlativo] pulcherrima atque utilissima = the nicest and most useful gifts possible

"He showed the enemies that the last signal was given by night from this/that very bright light [referred to]." = "hostibus ostendit ultimum signum illâ luce clarissimâ nocte deditum esse."

Re: Yet more Wheelock muddling...

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:20 pm
by Rindu
quam with a superlative = "as _______ as possible".

In this case it is not a relative pronoun but a particle.

Re: Yet more Wheelock muddling...

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:47 pm
by adrianus
Some say it's adverbial in that usage, like "how" or "so". That's why it's marked with a grave accent,—to distinguish it.
Eo usu, nonnulli qui id adverbium esse dicunt, sicut "quomodò" vel "taliter". Ideò, per gravem accentum denotatur, ut distinguantur.

Re: Yet more Wheelock muddling...

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:27 am
by thesaurus
Einhard wrote: Ostendit hostes ultimum signum luce clarissima illa nocte dedisse,

is tranlsated in benissimus' key as: He showed that enemy had given the last signal on that night with a very bright light,

which ticks all the boxes, literally and idiomatically. My initial translation was:

He showed the enemies that the last signal was given by night from this very bright light.

Obviously mine is a bit clunky but I think it is, literally at least, one possible translation. Is it? Or am I missing something?
To explicate Adrianus's answer a little more, your translation is (unfortunately) not possible. Because you took "hostes" as the object of "ostendit," you've mistakenly translated "dedisse" as a passive verb. It's active, so you need a subject. That's when you figure out that the accusative "hostes" becomes the subject of the reported speech.

Si Adriani responsum paulùm explicare possum, versio tua (pro dolore!) impossibilis est. Cum "hostes" obiectum verbi "ostendi" habeas, verbum "dedisse" passivum esse perperam arbitratus es. Cum activum sit, aliquid subiectum adhibere necesse est, atque ita discernens, verbum accusativum "hostes" fieri subiectum orationis obliquae invenies.