A question about Chap 20, No.1

[zhongv1979]

1. Etiam senes fructibus sapientiae et consiliis argumentisque certis saepe carent.

The key says :

Even old men often lack fruits of wisdom, plans and certain proofs.

Which sounds right to me. However, when I was doing this, I came up with this translation:

The old men, even with fruits of wisdom, plans and proofs, often lack certainty.

Is my translation plausible? Or there is some fault in it that I have not seen?

Thank you very much.

[spiphany]

Remember that "certus" is normally an adjective. If you decide to take it substantively, you have to decide whether that extension of meaning is justified. I can't say whether it would be incorrect for the author to have used it this way here, but it feels awkward to me. I would expect something like "nÅ￾n certÅ￾ sciunt" if that was the sense intended here.

Likewise, the sense of "with fruits of wisdom..." I would expect to be expressed in Latin as "fructÅ«s sapentiae habentÄ“s" (direct object of a participle) or "quibus fructÅ«s sapentiae sunt" (relative clause, dative of possession). I can't think of a type of dative or ablative which would have this sense. Ablative of accompaniment uses "cum", and I think is only used for people. An ablative of description would make sense only if it were "sapentiÄ￾" but not "fructibus", since "fructibus" can't describe the quality of the old men.