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QUEM ea glubet??

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QUEM ea glubet??

Postby Deudeditus » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:37 am

Well, I finally found my book. I had some questions about ch. 26/27 but, alas, I can't remember any except for one. How exactly is 'quot' used? It seems weird to me...
As a side note, the choir I'm inis singing a song which uses quot. Can't remember it all, but I know that it mixes Latin with English... Englin/Lingua Englina, if you will... the chorus: Caput apri defero, redens laudes Domino. What is this 'redens'? I know it's a present active participle, but I can't find a verb 'redo' (except maybe for re-dare, but that would make the p.a.p. redans) and redeo, -ire doesn't make sense to me. It's supposed to be an old English text, so maybe redens is a corrupted form of ridens, but I don't know about that when Enlish has words like ridicule, etc. If anyone can help, it would be appreciated, I'll post the text, too, if y'all want me to.

..Anyway.. In ch. 27 I didn't have too much trouble, but the poem 'Alley Cat' gave me a tad bit of trouble.

Caeli, Lesbia nostra, Lesbia illa
Illa Lesbia, quam Catullus unam
plus quam se atque suos amavit omnes...

what does unam modify? quam (Lesbiam?) And suos.
Here's my translation: Caelius, our Lesbia, that famous Lesbia, that Lesbia, the one who Cat. has loved more than himself or all his (friends?) now strips the descendants of brave Remus in crossroads and alleys.

And can primum remedium be translated as the best medicine? not literally, of course.

.praegratias vobis :D
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Re: QUEM ea glubet??

Postby benissimus » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:51 am

Deudeditus wrote:Well, I finally found my book. I had some questions about ch. 26/27 but, alas, I can't remember any except for one. How exactly is 'quot' used? It seems weird to me...

quot simply means "how many" and is similar in meaning and usage to quantus, -a, -um (except that it doesn't decline). when used in the construction "tot... quot..." it means "as many... as..." (tot hostes quot serui = as many enemies as there are slaves).

As a side note, the choir I'm inis singing a song which uses quot. Can't remember it all, but I know that it mixes Latin with English... Englin/Lingua Englina, if you will... the chorus: Caput apri defero, redens laudes Domino. What is this 'redens'? I know it's a present active participle, but I can't find a verb 'redo' (except maybe for re-dare, but that would make the p.a.p. redans) and redeo, -ire doesn't make sense to me. It's supposed to be an old English text, so maybe redens is a corrupted form of ridens, but I don't know about that when Enlish has words like ridicule, etc. If anyone can help, it would be appreciated, I'll post the text, too, if y'all want me to.

the word in question is almost definitely reddens, present participle of reddo, reddere, redidi, reditum "to give back, return". You can think of it as being a compound of re(d)- and dare moved to a different conjugation (and many do), but technically it is a different root.

..Anyway.. In ch. 27 I didn't have too much trouble, but the poem 'Alley Cat' gave me a tad bit of trouble.

Caeli, Lesbia nostra, Lesbia illa
Illa Lesbia, quam Catullus unam
plus quam se atque suos amavit omnes...

what does unam modify? quam (Lesbiam?) And suos.
Here's my translation: Caelius, our Lesbia, that famous Lesbia, that Lesbia, the one who Cat. has loved more than himself or all his (friends?) now strips the descendants of brave Remus in crossroads and alleys.

unus, -a, -um can also mean "only/alone" or "single". Your translation would be more literal if you said something like "...whom alone Catullus loved...".

And can primum remedium be translated as the best medicine? not literally, of course.

why not? fyi optimus, -a, -um = "best"
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Postby Kasper » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:14 am

Benissime, wouldn't you take the "quam ... unam" as meaning "the one whom" Catullus loves more than... etc.??
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby benissimus » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:06 am

I don't dispute Deudeditus's answer as being better English. "the one whom" would be una quam. However, you can also take this as a case in which the antecedent is attracted into the relative clause, making una quam and quam unam basically the same. I wasn't saying that the translation was wrong, but rather making sure that he was conscious of the liberty he had taken.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Postby Deudeditus » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:32 am

just to keep it all on one thread..

Ut praestem Pyladen, aliquis mihi praestet Oresten
Hoc non fit verbis, Marce; ut ameris, ama.


For me to show a Pyladen, let someone show me an Oresten
This isn't accomplished with words; So you would be loved, love.

Is that correct? I didn't have my book with me today, but I thought that praesto was translated as either 'to excell' ( For me to excell a Pyladen??) or 'to show/offer/display' (like ostendo, maybe?). It seems a little weird. And help on the subj.

Ut praestem Pyladen...; ut ameris...- Purpose
aliquis mihi praestet Oresten- Jussive

But on the bright side, I was pretty confident in the translation of aliquis, as I had no dictionary on hand to make me feel betta. (hopefully I did translate it right! :oops: ) Pronouns for some reason are hard for me to get comfortable with.
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Postby Deudeditus » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:34 am

benissimus wrote:...making sure that he was conscious of the liberty he had taken.


Gratias, Benissime. I wasn't conscious at all of this liberty that I had so freely taken.. :)
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