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style or necessity?

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style or necessity?

Postby ÓBuadhaigh » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:07 pm

Hi folks.

I'd be grateful for any advice on sentence 15 in the Practice and Review section of chapter 21.

The sentence reads;

Many nations which lack true peace are being destroyed by wars.

Benissimus' Key has,

Multae patriae bellis delentur quae vera pace egent.

I have,

Multae nationes, quibus pace vera caret, bellis delentur.

Is there any reason not to use 'carere' here? Is there a nuance I have missed somewhere? Also, what of my use of the relative pronoun? I trust (perhaps foolishly) that I'm ok with 'nationes' as legitimate variation.

Many thanks to any who can advise.

Séan
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Postby Deudeditus » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:46 pm

Salve, a sheain.
I had a similar problem with carere and egere, and (I believe it was Benissimus who told me) the former only implies that the subject is without the object, while the latter implies necessity.
scientia huius terrae ille caret- that man is without knowledge of this land.
scientia huius terrae ille eget- that man needs (i.e. he doesn't have them, but he should)
http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latgramm.htm is a good site to look up words pretty quickly. you could look up natio and patria and decide which one you like best, but I would go with patria, or gens, but I don't remember if Wheelocks introduces gens in this caput, so that might not be an option.
you used the relative pronoun in the ablative, it should have been in the nominative, as it is the one 'carere-ing'. Usually, the relative phrase is at the end of the sentence, but not always.
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Postby ÓBuadhaigh » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:47 pm

Many thanks, Eoin, for your help.

I did wonder about the choice of verb Benissimus made. When I had made an abitrary choice and got a different answer, the alarm bells started ringing.

Thank you, too for the relative pronoun correction. It's taken me quite a while to get my head round that one. I have the unconscious habit of 'translating' an ordinary English sentence into 'Latinised' English before translating it into Latin. I outdid myself here by mentally changing the English of that clause to, "to which true peace is lacking," rather than leaving it plain and simple.

I'll have to check out the link you offered another time 'cos we're storm bound just now and I can hardly keep an internet connection going longer than 45 seconds, without a hint of exaggeration.

Thanks again!

Slán

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