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Ch. 19

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Ch. 19

Postby Deudeditus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:25 am

in Practice and Review, ch. 19 I think I ran into a few problems.
Cuius libertas ab isto auctore deinde deleta est?
"Whose liberty was then destroyed by that author?"
Cuis libertatem eorum eo tempore delere coepit?
"Which man began to destroy his liberty that time?"
Qui vir fortis clarusque, de quo legisti, aetatem brevem mortemque celerem exspectabat?
"What strong and famous man, of whom you have written, was expecting a short life and a swift death?" did I translate clarus and aetas correctly? I'm pretty sure about clarus but not so sure about aetas... where does the accent fall on clarusque?
and does " All that which is certain is death" translate as Solum quod certum est mors or Solum quod certum est mors est? Sorry if the grammar on that last one was bad... Eam ex memoria scripsi.
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Re: Ch. 19

Postby benissimus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:45 am

Deudeditus wrote:in Practice and Review, ch. 19 I think I ran into a few problems.
Cuius libertas ab isto auctore deinde deleta est?
"Whose liberty was then destroyed by that author?"

Correct

Quis libertatem eorum eo tempore delere coepit?
"Which man began to destroy his liberty that time?"

quis (which is what the book had) simply means "who" (interrogative) by itself.
eorum is literally "of those (men)", so "their" would be more accurate than "his".

Qui vir fortis clarusque, de quo legisti, aetatem brevem mortemque celerem exspectabat?
"What strong and famous man, of whom you have written, was expecting a short life and a swift death?" did I translate clarus and aetas correctly? I'm pretty sure about clarus but not so sure about aetas... where does the accent fall on clarusque?

de quo legisti = of whom you have read (not written)
aetas usually means the period of time that constitutes a life, so "life" seems to get the idea across here. "famous" is a perfectly acceptable meaning of clarus.
clarusque is accented on the penult (cla-rús-que), as are all words that have an enclitic on the end (the free-moving Latin enclitics being -ne, -ve, and -que).

and does " All that which is certain is death" translate as Solum quod certum est mors or Solum quod certum est mors est?

the shorter the better, why not just certum omnium mori est? I just found out how tricky it is to rend the word "certainty" in Latin! Actually, perhaps I have changed the sense a bit too much.

Out of your two translations, I would prefer the former (where one of the est's is omitted), though neither is grammatically wrong.


When did you add "pathicus sum" to your signature? I followed the link expecting fun and all I got was music! No, wait... that was Parthicus. :oops:
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Postby Deudeditus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:57 am

Parthicus means "Parthian", no?
In Ars Amoris, there is a reference to the Parthian cavalry tactics. I thought it was funny and oh so true... :D
The site is my band's, sorry for the confusion..
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Postby Deudeditus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:02 pm

well I have some more questions about ch. 19 stuff. I go pretty slowly as I generally can't find alot of time to study. I wish I had Lingua Latina pars I right now, but I have a feeling that I should finish Wheelock's first.oh well.

Quid nos facere contra istos et scelera eorum debemus?
-What should we make (for ourselves/ourselves?) against those men and their evil? I'm not sure how nos should be translated.
O di immortales! In qua urbe vivimus? ...
- Oh immortal gods! In what city do we live? ... why is it qua urbe? Shouldn't the M&F singular ablative of quis be quo?
Qui sunt boni cives nisi ei qui beneficia patriae memoria tenent?
- Who are good citizens if not those who hold the benifit of the mamaland [i]with
their memory? Would a better (if not exact) translation be "in their memory"?
why are there two ets in Illa argumenta visa sunt et gravia et certa? Is that common? Those arguments had appeared important and certain," is how I translated it. It just occured to me that the two ets could mean "both...and".. not sure, though. Memoria mala teneo propter quam stultus videor. not sure if that's right, but I try to use latin as much as I can.
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Postby benissimus » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:08 pm

Deudeditus wrote:Quid nos facere contra istos et scelera eorum debemus?
-What should we make (for ourselves/ourselves?) against those men and their evil? I'm not sure how nos should be translated.

nos is the subject.

quid nos facere... debemus = what should we do... ?

O di immortales! In qua urbe vivimus? ...
- Oh immortal gods! In what city do we live? ... why is it qua urbe? Shouldn't the M&F singular ablative of quis be quo?

qui, quae, quod, the interrogative adjective, must agree with urbe in the ablative feminine, hence qua.

Qui sunt boni cives nisi ei qui beneficia patriae memoria tenent?
- Who are good citizens if not those who hold the benifit of the mamaland [i]with
their memory? Would a better (if not exact) translation be "in their memory"?

memoria tenere is a phrase that means "to remember" (literally, to hold/keep in/by memory)

why are there two ets in Illa argumenta visa sunt et gravia et certa? Is that common? Those arguments had appeared important and certain," is how I translated it. It just occured to me that the two ets could mean "both...and".. not sure, though.

et... et... = "both... and...", and it is a very common construction (similarly aut... aut... = either... or...); it should be in the vocabulary entry with et. Occasionally also done with -que, though I doubt in this book.
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Postby Deudeditus » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:23 am

Interrogative PRONOUN- quis quod
" " ADJECTIVE- qui quae quod
got it, thanks.
facere and agere can both be translated as "do," right? Are there any cues I should take as to which one to use when translating eng.<lat.?
if my incessant questions get annoying, sorry. :oops:

Dixit femina mea, "sola sum iucunda tibi, sed tu malus es," ac eius iram saepe mihi iactabat et iactat, sola iucunda mihi non est femina mea...
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Postby benissimus » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:54 am

Deudeditus wrote:Interrogative PRONOUN- quis quod
" " ADJECTIVE- qui quae quod

there you go, though sometimes they are interchangeable.

facere and agere can both be translated as "do," right? Are there any cues I should take as to which one to use when translating eng.<lat.?

facere is a generic "do" (among its other meanings).

agere can sometimes be translated as "do", for lack of better words. When it doesn't mean "drive" or "lead", it often is used in circumlocutions to verbalize nouns:
gratiae "thanks" -> gratias agere "to give thanks"
triumphus "triumph" -> triumphum agere "to hold a triumph"
crimen "accusation" -> crimen agere "to make an accusation"
cura "care" -> curam agere "to take care (of)"
labor "work" -> laborem agere "to do work"

there are a lot more common and poetic phrases, but as you can see the choice of words is incredibly diverse (in each of the given phrases, agere is translated differently). A more general "do" generally warrants facere.

if my incessant questions get annoying, sorry. :oops:

Nonsense! This isn't my job, I come here for fun, and every now and then to learn :)
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Postby Deudeditus » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:20 pm

I see what you mean. I'll just have to spend more time with them, that's probably best. I try to think and speak in latin alot throughout my day so I'll try to concentrate on where I would use agere and facere, generally that helps (with spanish anyway). The problem: I know of noone that understands latin in my town at a higher level than me (although I'm sure there is someone), so I usually end up having conversations with myself. :D Insanus meis amicis saepe videor propter hunc factum. :)
can agere mean lead in the same sense as ducere? Or is it more like leading a pair of oxen?
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