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Translation question

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:05 pm
by Rhuiden
In Chapter 10 Sententiae Antiquae, number 5 (page 65), I have a quick question.

SEMPER MAGNO CUM TIMORE INCIPIO DICERE. My translation = I always begin to speak great with fear.

My question is why is "cum" there? Is it not redundant? "magno" and "timore" are both in the ablative case which is to be translated "by/with". If the cum was not there I would have translated the sentence as : I always begin to speak with great fear. It almost appears to need to be translated as "....with great with fear" but I know this is not correct.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Rhuiden

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:14 pm
by nostos
Rhuiden,

at times the ablative of manner uses 'cum' with a prep even though it has an adjective before the noun. 'I always begin to speak with great fear' is the right way to translate it.

(ablative of means = never with cum; ablative of manner = always with cum before a noun only; ablative of manner before an [adjective + noun] = sometimes with, sometimes without cum, depending solely on authorial preference or the gods).

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:26 pm
by Rhuiden
Thanks Nostos, I think I need to reread the various uses of the ablative case.

Rhuiden

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:19 pm
by benissimus
Also, when a prepositional object has an adjective modifying it, the adjective can precede the preposition (e.g. cum magna laude -> magna cum laude). Rarely the noun goes before the preposition and the adjective follows (e.g. laude cum magna).

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:34 pm
by Deudeditus
so if i wanted to say that i began to sail with great speed, would
navigare magna cum celeritate coepi
be a good translation? cum magna celeritate and magna cum celeritate are both right? Are there differences in emphasis or anything?

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:17 am
by benissimus
Deudeditus wrote:navigare magna cum celeritate coepi
be a good translation? cum magna celeritate and magna cum celeritate are both right? Are there differences in emphasis or anything?
Those are correct, the only difference is stylistic as far as I know.