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Additional exercises for Wheelock

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Additional exercises for Wheelock

Postby nostos » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:33 pm

I read Dowling's Method the other day, and while I do agree with what is said about using Wheelock alone to learn Latin (the exercises are too few to ever learn it well), I disagree with the utter abandonment of Wheelock so dismissively given in that article. If you want to learn, really learn, Latin, go here. This site has exhaustive drills based on Wheelock's Latin. The book is in my opinion one of the best out there today, especially if you're learning it on your own like me.

If you have the patience, read Claude Pavur's essay on the teaching of Latin. He makes some brilliant points.
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Postby William » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:14 pm

Hello nostos,

Welcome to Textkit.

I agree with you. I am nearing the end of my self-study of Wheelock and I am going to use the Dowling Method when I am done. I think I have learned a lot of important rules which will help me in my Latin study. I am not sure how I would have learned the rules without Wheelock and by using the Dowling Method alone.

Thanks for the links.

WB
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Postby nostos » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:10 am

William wrote:Welcome to Textkit.


Thank you!

William wrote:I agree with you. I am nearing the end of my self-study of Wheelock and I am going to use the Dowling Method when I am done. I think I have learned a lot of important rules which will help me in my Latin study. I am not sure how I would have learned the rules without Wheelock and by using the Dowling Method alone.


That's exactly it: Dowling expects that with just a few overall grammar pointers, you can deduce the most miniscule details of Latin grammar. I have failed to find anyone who can do this. Even William Harris, for all his ranting about learning directly and without translation, gives you several of the points which are explained 'the old way'. But yes, I should at least do the 200 times bit too, even though it seems tedious, it will help tremendously.

William wrote:Thanks for the links.


You're welcome!
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Postby Lucus Eques » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:07 am

That's exactly it: Dowling expects that with just a few overall grammar pointers, you can deduce the most miniscule details of Latin grammar.


That is not the case. The most important part of the Dowling Method is Lingua Latina, whose first volume I have completed and have enjoyed so, so immensely. Second only to my time in Italy, this one book alone has been the best language learning experience of my life. It's that good, in my opinion; I loved it so much. It's funny, extremely clear, and it teaches Latin, in Latin, the most essential point which is so often missed. Though I had a semester's worth of Wheelock as well, and though I do appreciate having had a very basic runthrough of the fundaments of the language, it's worth most surely ends there.

Simply, don't knock it till you try it. As one who has gone through nearly all the process, I advocate it above all others. I will freely answer any questions you might have about Lingua Latina or any other aspect of the Dowling Method.
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Postby nostos » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:09 am

Lucus Eques wrote:Simply, don't knock it till you try it. As one who has gone through nearly all the process, I advocate it above all others. I will freely answer any questions you might have about Lingua Latina or any other aspect of the Dowling Method.


True, true. I stand corrected; not having Lingua Latina, I shouldn't say anything about the Dowling method until I know what I'm talking about and in this case I simply don't.

I just didn't like the way the article was so dismissive of a truly good text to get you started, and I feel that I've got to finish Wheelock first, because to start something and then move onto something else when the original thing works for me is just bad discipline. With the link above you can get lots and lots of practice (part of the reason I've taken so long in getting through the first 30 chapters), although it is not a method of teaching Latin in Latin, as you say, and that would be a marvellous experience (if daunting). But I assume that's why you're told to write out all the declensions and conjugations 200 times before you begin, to have them set in your mind permanently as a base.
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Postby Lucus Eques » Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:57 pm

Indeed, the "brute memorization" is the only way, in my opinion, short of a total immersion Latin experience (not easy), to catch up with the little Roman children who were surrounded by all the forms of words from birth.

Lingua Latina is not daunting at all, actually; it is so expertly graduated a text that the student is presented the (easily) solvable challange of understanding new vocabulary and grammar from context. It's possible to understand every word and bit of grammar without a dictionary. It requires time, but no more than any other text.

My gripe about Wheelock, now that I have gone well beyond its level of teaching and I have some perspective on it, is that the student is not taught how to read real Latin, or even pleasant Latin, but only those Loci or Sententiae Antiquae, which very often make no sense out of context, using the random bits of vocabulary obtained from the chapter just read, throwing haphazzard elements of grammar together. I find them aesthetically displeasing. I haven't studied from Wheelock in a long time, and so when I see many of the sentences that others post here, asking for translation help, I am often baffled by those sentences' strangeness or inappropriateness — it's just downright confusing, I think. And I don't think that students ought to understand that confusion to be what Latin is all about. Latin should be fun, and a beautiful, enriching experience. And until recently, I didn't know that was possible.
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Postby nostos » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:23 pm

Lucus Eques wrote:Indeed, the "brute memorization" is the only way, in my opinion, short of a total immersion Latin experience (not easy), to catch up with the little Roman children who were surrounded by all the forms of words from birth.


Agreed, absolutely. I have no problem memorising butely :lol:

Lucus Eques wrote:Latin should be fun, and a beautiful, enriching experience. And until recently, I didn't know that was possible.


To me it is fun, as is; but because it's a graduated text, I assume it would make the experience even better (what I'm trying to say is, you've convinced me). I'm going to finish Wheelock, then write out everything 200 times, then go on to Lingua Latina.

Excellent, excellent.
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Postby Lucus Eques » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:07 pm

Enjoy, amice :-)
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Postby FiliusLunae » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:40 am

Lucus Eques wrote:That is not the case. The most important part of the Dowling Method is Lingua Latina, whose first volume I have completed and have enjoyed so, so immensely. Second only to my time in Italy, this one book alone has been the best language learning experience of my life. It's that good, in my opinion; I loved it so much. It's funny, extremely clear, and it teaches Latin, in Latin, the most essential point which is so often missed. Though I had a semester's worth of Wheelock as well, and though I do appreciate having had a very basic runthrough of the fundaments of the language, it's worth most surely ends there.

Simply, don't knock it till you try it. As one who has gone through nearly all the process, I advocate it above all others. I will freely answer any questions you might have about Lingua Latina or any other aspect of the Dowling Method.


Ah, Luce, I'm starting to read more and more about this Lingua Latina, and I've looked at its sample pages, that I simply must have it. ;-) I do too love reading Latin, and the Lingua Latina seems to allow you to do just that. Lately, I've reading some Medieval stuff, which I love; most of it so... umm.. mystical. :wink:
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Postby eliliang » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:47 am

Although this doesn't use Lingua Latina, this new free intensive online course uses something similar and possibly even better:

http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... php?t=4505
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