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Help Please! Loci Antiqui #6 Cicero on Friendship

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Help Please! Loci Antiqui #6 Cicero on Friendship

Postby clairyce » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:51 pm

This is probably the clumsiest translation I have ever done and I will not rest easy until I get some help fixing it!

Latin: Ego vos hortor ut amicitiam omnibus rebus humanis anteponatis. Sentio equidem, excepta sapientia nihil melius homini a deis immortalibus datum esse. Divitias alii anteponunt; alii salutem; alii potestatem; alii honores; multi etiam voluptates. Illa autem incerta sunt posita non tam in consiliis nostris quam in fortunae vicissitudinibus. Qui autem in vitute summum bonum ponunt, bene illi quidem faciunt; sed ex ipsa virtute amicitia nascitur nec sine virtute amicitia esse potest.

Which I have translated: I urge you in order that every friendship is put before the business of men. I think indeed, except wisdom, nothing is better given by the immortal gods to man. Some put riches before all else, others put health, others put power, others put honor; many even put pleasure before all. However, places in our councils are as uncertain as changes of fortune. Who places virtue as the highest good will indeed accomplish satisfactorily; but virtue is not able to spring forth in friendship without virtue from himself (this sentence doesn't make any sense to me).

Latin: Denique ceterae rew quae petuntur opportunae sunt rebus singulis: divitiae ut eis utaris; honores, ut lauderis; salus ut dolore careas et rebus corporis utaris. Amicitia res plurimus continet; nullo loco excluditur; numquam intempestiva, numquam molesta est. Itaque non aqua, non igne in locis pluribus utimur quam amicitia; nam amicitia secundus res clariores facit et adversas res leviores.

Which I have clumsily translated: At last the remaining matter, they who seek other suitable things are singular: in order that they experience riches; honor, in order that they shall be praised; health, in order that they be without pain and experiences of the body. Friendship is what matters most; it excludes none, is never unseasonable, and never troublesome. So not water, not fire (in locis pluribus utimur: I have NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS!) than friendship; for friendship is the second brightest thing and opposite things are trivial to accomplish.

I'm hoping to finish translating this by tomorrow and will not rest easy until I get it right! Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Help Please! Loci Antiqui #6 Cicero on Friendship

Postby rkday » Sun May 16, 2010 11:46 pm

I've come upon this quite late, but hopefully you'll get some use out of it.

"Ego vos hortor ut" - ut + subj here is not result or purpose clause, but indirect command: "I urge that you...", "I urge you to..."

"amicitiam omnibus rebus humanis anteponatis" - it can't be "every friendship", because that would be omnem amicitiam - omnibus agrees with "rebus humanis", so he's urging that "amicitiam" be preferred to "omnibus rebus humanis"...

"Illa autem incerta sunt posita non tam in consiliis nostris quam in fortunae vicissitudinibus" - those things (illa, neut, pl.) are incerta - that is, they are posita not in consiliis nostris (consiliis here meaning something like judgement or plans) but in fortunae vicissitudinibus. Is that clearer?

"Qui autem in vitute summum bonum ponunt, bene illi quidem faciunt" - they who (qui) ponunt the summum bonum in virtute, they (illi) faciunt bene - they do well, exactly like the English phrase.

"sed ex ipsa virtute amicitia nascitur nec sine virtute amicitia esse potest" - virtute can't be the subject here because it's abl. and nothing can be springing forth in friendship because there's no word "in", and ipsa can't be "himself" because it's not a masculine form. Look again at the word order - amicitia is nascitur from ipsa virtute, but sine virtute, amicitia cannot esse (which is why amicitia is more important than virtute!)

clairyce wrote:This is probably the clumsiest translation I have ever done and I will not rest easy until I get some help fixing it!

Latin: Ego vos hortor ut amicitiam omnibus rebus humanis anteponatis. Sentio equidem, excepta sapientia nihil melius homini a deis immortalibus datum esse. Divitias alii anteponunt; alii salutem; alii potestatem; alii honores; multi etiam voluptates. Illa autem incerta sunt posita non tam in consiliis nostris quam in fortunae vicissitudinibus. Qui autem in vitute summum bonum ponunt, bene illi quidem faciunt; sed ex ipsa virtute amicitia nascitur nec sine virtute amicitia esse potest.

Which I have translated: I urge you in order that every friendship is put before the business of men. I think indeed, except wisdom, nothing is better given by the immortal gods to man. Some put riches before all else, others put health, others put power, others put honor; many even put pleasure before all. However, places in our councils are as uncertain as changes of fortune. Who places virtue as the highest good will indeed accomplish satisfactorily; but virtue is not able to spring forth in friendship without virtue from himself (this sentence doesn't make any sense to me).

Latin: Denique ceterae rew quae petuntur opportunae sunt rebus singulis: divitiae ut eis utaris; honores, ut lauderis; salus ut dolore careas et rebus corporis utaris. Amicitia res plurimus continet; nullo loco excluditur; numquam intempestiva, numquam molesta est. Itaque non aqua, non igne in locis pluribus utimur quam amicitia; nam amicitia secundus res clariores facit et adversas res leviores.

Which I have clumsily translated: At last the remaining matter, they who seek other suitable things are singular: in order that they experience riches; honor, in order that they shall be praised; health, in order that they be without pain and experiences of the body. Friendship is what matters most; it excludes none, is never unseasonable, and never troublesome. So not water, not fire (in locis pluribus utimur: I have NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS!) than friendship; for friendship is the second brightest thing and opposite things are trivial to accomplish.

I'm hoping to finish translating this by tomorrow and will not rest easy until I get it right! Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Help Please! Loci Antiqui #6 Cicero on Friendship

Postby ptolemyauletes » Thu May 20, 2010 2:16 pm

I encourage you to put friendship before all human affairs. In fact I feel that there is nothing better given to mankind by the immortal gods, with the possible exception of wisdom.
Some prefer riches, others health, some power, others honours; many even prefer pleasure. But these things are inconstant, and do not result from our wise council as much as from the vicissitudes of chance. Moreover, those who place the greatest good in virtue, in fact do very well. But friendship arises from virtue itself and friendship cannot exist without virtue.

In the end, the other things which are sought after are only fit for single matters: wealth, so that you may use it; honours, so that you can be praised; health, so that you might be free from suffering and enjoy the benefits of your body. Friendship holds very many benefits; it is shut out of no place; it is never out of season, and never troublesome. And so we do not even use fire or water in more places than friendship; for friendship makes favourable matters more clear, and unfavourable matters easier to bear.
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