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BLD Ex118 Pg50 Dialogue

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BLD Ex118 Pg50 Dialogue

Postby mariek » Sat Aug 02, 2003 8:26 am

<br />I'm having trouble with a small portion of the dialogue, the sentence that starts with "apud". It's quite complex, and after trying different things, I've come up with this as the English translation:<br /><br /> Women prepare food and plow fields, and fight among free men to help them.<br /><br />This is the original portion of the dialogue:<br /><br /> Non agricolae sunt. Bellum amant galli, non agri cultivam. <br /> Apud eos viri pugnant et feminae auxilio liberorum agros arant parantque cibum.<br /><br />Did I translate this correctly? I feel as though they rearranged the position of words, and it seems like words that are nomally grouped together are moved further apart. Is this true or am I just imagining this?<br /><br />
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Re:BLD Ex118 Pg50 Dialogue

Postby ingrid70 » Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:37 am

I'm afraid you are imagining it ;)<br /><br />viri = nom plu (or gen sing) and liberorum = gen plu; you can't combine them. <br /><br />In this sentence, the word order is almost the same as in english:<br /><br />among them, the men fight and the women, with the help of the children, plough fields and prepare food.<br /><br />Liberorum can be both an adiective, but there is no accompanying noun in this sentence; or a noun meaning children.<br /><br />Hope this helps<br />Ingrid
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Re:BLD Ex118 Pg50 Dialogue

Postby Episcopus » Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:10 pm

[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=346;start=0#2531 date=1059820638]<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />among them, the men fight and the women, with the help of the children, plough fields and prepare food.<br /><br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yay ;D I read that first time 'by means of the help of the children'... <br /><br />-it starts to increase in difficulty! Soon you will be reading Perseus Andromedaque! <br /><br />it's really all about making sense of it as the text in Latin is OFTEN ambiguous :o
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Re:BLD Ex118 Pg50 Dialogue

Postby mariek » Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:13 pm

[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=346;start=0#2531 date=1059820638]<br />In this sentence, the word order is almost the same as in english:<br /><br />among them, the men fight and the women, with the help of the children, plough fields and prepare food.<br /><br />Liberorum can be both an adiective, but there is no accompanying noun in this sentence; or a noun meaning children. [/quote]<br /><br />One of my downfalls was that I was stuck on the idea that liberorum was an adjective.<br />And I never imagined that "apud eos" was one unit. I had a tough time trying to get "eos" to fit in somewhere. But it seems so obvious now that you've shown me how to read it through like English, from left to right.<br /><br />
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Re:BLD Ex118 Pg50 Dialogue

Postby ingrid70 » Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:10 am

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=346;start=0#2602 date=1059941587]<br /><br />But it seems so obvious now that you've shown me how to read it through like English, from left to right.<br />[/color]<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Things are always obvious once you know the answer :).<br /><br />Ingrid
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Postby Meowth » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:21 pm

is vir est servus et eius domicilium est in silvis Galliae


i translated this way :

that man's a slave and the dwelling place of him is in Gaul's forests

can it be : that man's a slave and his dwelling place is in Gaul's forests , right ?


i do know both have the same meaning, but which one has better translation according to the original latin sentence ?
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Postby benissimus » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:51 pm

Meowth wrote:is vir est servus et eius domicilium est in silvis Galliae


i translated this way :

that man's a slave and the dwelling place of him is in Gaul's forests

can it be : that man's a slave and his dwelling place is in Gaul's forests , right ?


i do know both have the same meaning, but which one has better translation according to the original latin sentence ?

The second one is better English, the genitive of "he" is "his" in English.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Postby Meowth » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:39 am

oh no ! i'm now forgetting my english... :oops:
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Postby benissimus » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:58 am

we sometimes say "of him", but it usually corresponds to the Latin objective genitive rather than the possessive genitive.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Postby Meowth » Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:35 pm

BTW, is vir est servus et suum domicilium est in silvis Galliae is correct ?

is vir : subject
servus : direct object

:?:

thanks for replying ;)
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Postby benissimus » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:02 am

Meowth wrote:BTW, is vir est servus et suum domicilium est in silvis Galliae is correct ?

eius or suum may be correct. eius domicilium means the house belongs to another person, suum domicilium means the house belongs to himself.

is vir : subject
servus : direct object

the verb esse cannot have a direct object, both are in the nominative because the "man" really is "the slave"; two things that describe the same person/thing typically remain in the same case.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Postby Meowth » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:13 am

thanks for clarifying :)
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