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BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:02 am
by mariek
<br />I feel like I've hit a major road block. I feel like I've struggled harder with this exercise than with any of the others. And out of 11 questions, I don't feel confident about 4 of them. That's almost half of the exercise! I feel so discouraged...<br /><br />Would you please look this over and let me know if I'm on the right track? Thanks!<br /><br />#2. The reputation of the wicked farmer is not good.<br /> Fäma agricolae malï bonam non est.<br />(fäma=NOM; agricolae malï=GEN; bonam=ACC)<br /><br />#4. Lesbia invites the goodsailor to dinner.<br /> Lesbia ad cënam nautam bonum vocat.<br />(Lesbia=NOM; ad cënam=ACC; nautam bonum=ACC)<br />I wasn't sure whether there can be two ACC parts.<br /><br />#5. Why is Lesbia with the good sailor hastening from the cottage?<br /> Cür Lesbia nautä bonum ex casä properat?<br />(Lesbia=NOM; nautä bonum=ABL; ex casä=ABL)<br />Is it correct to use "ex" for "from the cottage"? Or should I use "ab" or "de"?<br />Is it OK to have two ABL parts?<br /><br />#8. The horses of the wicked farmers are small.<br /> Equuï agricolae malï parvï est?<br />(Equuï=NOM; agricolae malï=GEN; parvï=NOM)<br />Is it correct to use the NOM PLUR for the horses? I made it plural because it is referring to horses which are also plural.<br /><br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:50 am
by benissimus
Relax - you made a few mistakes, but far fewer than I have seen most people make 8)<br /><br />#2. You were very close with this one except bonam should match fama so it would be bona.<br /><br />#4. I see nothing wrong with this one whatsoever. You can have as many accusatives as you want, so long as it's apparent what part of the sentence they represent.<br /><br />#5. I don't know if you've learned it yet, but the "with" in this sentence should probably be cum+ablative. Once again, bonum must match with nauta. Revised, it would look like Cur Lesbia cum nauta bono ex casa properat?.<br /><br />#8. This one is the only one that is significantly off. You misspelled equi (typo perhaps); "of the wicked farmers" should be agricolarum malorum; est needs to be sunt because the horses are plural.<br /><br /><br />Don't worry about the first three, but I would make sure you understand what is wrong with number eight. You can probably avoid some minor errors if you try translating the Latin (carefully) back into English to check for validity. It seems like you're having some problem with adjectives, but practice will definitely polish that.<br /><br />You really did not make that many mistakes. Learning from a book, I would be concerned with the mistakes you don't know you're making. You should be glad you are already developing instincts that tell you when something is wrong with a sentence! ;)

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:09 am
by bingley
Don't get discouraged. For most people learning a language isn't a steady upward climb, it's more like going up a staircase with extra wide steps, so you go up, stay on the same level for a bit, go up, stay on the same level for a bit and so on.<br /><br />Also think back. When you first started, each new word and inflection was a serious percentage of your knowledge. Now, because you already know stuff, it's a much smaller percentage. So, even though you're learning the same amount in absolute terms it feels smaller.<br /><br />You're right in no. 8. Small has to agree in number and case with the horses (equi not equui). So in no. 2 good is describing the reputation, so it should be bona not bonam.<br /><br />No. 4. No problem with two accusatives. They're serving different functions. An accusative noun can be the object of a verb or the object of some prepositions. <br /><br />No. 5. You might want to put cum nauta bono. The cum makes it clearer -- the ablative can be used by itself for accompaniment, but it's more common with cum. nauta masculine ablative noun therefore masculine ablative adjective bono.

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:41 am
by mariek
[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=291;start=0#1849 date=1058928641]<br />Relax - you made a few mistakes, but far fewer than I have seen most people make 8)[/quote]<br /><br />You are quite the flatterer! :) <br />
<br />#2. You were very close with this one except bonam should match fama so it would be bona.
<br /><br />Oh, I see. To simplify the sentence it would be "The reputation is not good", thus good must agree with reputation. I got lost when they threw in all that "fluff" in the sentence.<br />
<br />#5. I don't know if you've learned it yet, but the "with" in this sentence should probably be cum+ablative. Once again, bonum must match with nauta. Revised, it would look like Cur Lesbia cum nauta bono ex casa properat?.
<br /><br />Oh!!! OK, I think I get it. Nauta is masculine, thus we use bonus in ABL form which is bonö. I'm really sloppy about matching up the gender/case of adjectives, especially when they're from different declensions. That was also sloppy of me to leave out "cum". It's because I assume that the ABL case has the preposition tacked on by default.<br />
<br />#8. This one is the only one that is significantly off. You misspelled equi (typo perhaps); "of the wicked farmers" should be agricolarum malorum; est needs to be sunt because the horses are plural.
<br /><br />Nope, I have to admit that I really thought it was spelled "equuï". :(<br /><br />Eeks! I can't believe I overlooked the PLURAL farmers. Ya, that was really really bad on my part. So it's the GEN PLUR! And I forgot to pluralize the verb.<br /><br />So it should be : Equï agricölarum malörum parvï sunt<br />
<br />Learning from a book, I would be concerned with the mistakes you don't know you're making.
<br /><br />This is always on the back of my mind. :(<br /><br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:55 am
by mariek
[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=291;start=0#1851 date=1058929759]<br />Don't get discouraged. For most people learning a language isn't a steady upward climb, it's more like going up a staircase with extra wide steps, so you go up, stay on the same level for a bit, go up, stay on the same level for a bit and so on.[/quote]<br /><br />There are a set of stairs near my workplace which is about a city block in length. These stairs are extra wide, I'd say about 2 feet deep. So most people take two footsteps per stair step. Well, when I walk up and down that stairway, I have found that I can keep my fast stride by taking 2-steps on one stair step, then 1-step on the next stair step, then 2-steps on the following stair step, then 1-step on the next. I basically alternate 2-step, 1-step, 2-step, 1-step. This allows me to keep my pace and keep an "even" stride.<br /><br />Well... ideally I'd like to do the same with Latin. But I guess that's being overly optimistic.<br /><br />Thank you for affirming what Beniss said in the previous message.<br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:13 pm
by ingrid70
You are doing well, just post your answers, and the rest can be your teacher. Teachers are there to help you :).<br /><br />[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=291;start=0#1846 date=1058925747]<br /><br /><br />#4. Lesbia invites the goodsailor to dinner.<br /> Lesbia ad cënam nautam bonum vocat.<br />(Lesbia=NOM; ad cënam=ACC; nautam bonum=ACC)<br />I wasn't sure whether there can be two ACC parts.<br /><br />[color=Red] Try to distinguish between the accusative and the direct object. Direct object is one of the functions of the accusative; it has a couple more (not as many as the ablative though :)). So no worry about using a direct object and another function of the accusative.<br /><br /><br /><br />#5. Why is Lesbia with the good sailor hastening from the cottage?<br /> Cür Lesbia nautä bonum ex casä properat?<br />(Lesbia=NOM; nautä bonum=ABL; ex casä=ABL)<br />Is it correct to use "ex" for "from the cottage"? Or should I use "ab" or "de"?<br />Is it OK to have two ABL parts?<br /><br /> In my old book, we had to make a little drawing: a box with arrows, with all the 'place' prepositions we had learned. So ex, an arrow beginning in the box, ending outside; ab, an arrow beginning at the side of the box, ending outside; de, an arrow from the top of the box, going down; etc. Take a good look at the meaning of the prepositions, and at the sentence: what kind of from is it. I assumed, as you did, that Lesbia and the farmer were in the cottage before the started their hurrying. <br /><br />#8. The horses of the wicked farmers are small.<br /> Equuï agricolae malï parvï est?<br />(Equuï=NOM; agricolae malï=GEN; parvï=NOM)<br />Is it correct to use the NOM PLUR for the horses? I made it plural because it is referring to horses which are also plural.<br />[/color]<br /><br /> You don't want to know how often I make that mistake: misreading plurals for singulars and the other way around. I identify the case, -yes, it's genitive- and forget about checking the number. <br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Keep going. I think you're doing well.<br /><br />Ingrid

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:16 pm
by Episcopus
Have you done Ablative denoting 'with' - everything becomes clear then.<br />Just hope, for your sanity's sake, that this was just an offbeat exercise for you - alius, alia, aliud etc. show no mercy :'(

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:22 pm
by mariek
[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=291;start=0#1863 date=1058965984]<br />In my old book, we had to make a little drawing: a box with arrows, with all the 'place' prepositions we had learned. So ex, an arrow beginning in the box, ending outside; ab, an arrow beginning at the side of the box, ending outside; de, an arrow from the top of the box, going down; etc. Take a good look at the meaning of the prepositions, and at the sentence: what kind of from is it. I assumed, as you did, that Lesbia and the farmer were in the cottage before the started their hurrying.[/quote]<br /><br />That is an excellent idea! I can relate to simple drawings like that.<br /><br />Now if there were a trick for remembering all the declension endings....<br />I'm still looking them up in the chart. (sigh)<br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:32 pm
by mariek
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=291;start=0#1875 date=1058998577]<br />Have you done Ablative denoting 'with' - everything becomes clear then.[/quote]<br /><br />Um... I'm not sure. I guess that would be no, because it doesn't ring a bell.<br /><br />The section I'm working on right now is Nouns ending in -ius and -ium. So now the trick is remembering to use one i in the Genitive Singular, and that the -ius Vocative ends in i instead of e.<br />
<br />Just hope, for your sanity's sake, that this was just an offbeat exercise for you - alius, alia, aliud etc. show no mercy :'(
<br /><br />Mommy! Mommy! Episcopus is scaring me again. Waaah! :'(<br /><br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:12 pm
by Episcopus
Yeah, you'd remember ablative denoting with if you had done it.<br /><br />Worry not - ablative is fun (seriously I love it!). As time passes it becomes instinct which is fun. <br /><br />Yes, 9 irregular adjectives hurt me aswell ;D , but my mother is stupid so she can do nothing to aid me.<br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:56 pm
by mariek
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=291;start=0#1901 date=1059048725]<br />Yeah, you'd remember ablative denoting with if you had done it.[/quote]<br /><br />I took a peek ahead and found the section The Ablative Denoting With on Pg 44. I'm not quite there yet. I'm muddling through the exercise on Pg 39. What page are you on? I'm wondering if he'll ever discuss verbs...<br />
<br />Yes, 9 irregular adjectives hurt me aswell ;D
<br /><br />Are you talking about the alius, alia, aliud you mentioned earlier? They don't look so bad...<br />
<br />... but my mother is stupid so she can do nothing to aid me.
<br /><br />That's not a very nice thing to say about your mother. My mother couldn't help me with Partial Differential Equations, but I still love her and don't call her stupid...<br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:17 pm
by Episcopus
Sorry - I love my mother yet dislike her. <br /><br />Anyhow, I be on page 70, and Dr. D'Ooge talks for a LONG time about verbs. Worry not! I have gone through ACTIVE - present, imperfect, future of all 4 declensions and 3rd declension oddities "facere" to make (facio), dative adjectives, intransitive verbs taking dative along the way! <br />I am starting Passive now! Then on to the Perfect stem tenses Active and Passive. <br />In time, he shall talk about everything!

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:53 pm
by mariek
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=291;start=0#1913 date=1059063468]<br />Sorry - I love my mother yet dislike her.[/quote]<br /><br />Love and hate ... what a beautiful combination ... sending shivers up and down my spine.<br />I guess that song was before your time?<br />
Anyhow, I be on page 70, and Dr. D'Ooge talks for a LONG time about verbs.
<br /><br />Good, I look forward to it. As it is now, I'm just taking wild stabs at it when I want to say something. I'm looking up the verb and then trying to get it to fit in one of the verb charts in the front of my dictionary. It's not really efficacious since I have no idea what I'm doing.<br /><br />And I also have a need to learn conjunctions, more pronouns, and relative clauses.<br /><br />

Re:BLD Ex86II Pg37

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:12 pm
by Episcopus
Relative clauses come later also...<br /><br />Actually there are so many pages on verbs that I be bored slightly :-\<br />And I dislike passive. <br />The german passive is a lot worse even than that of latin (a whole new set of inflections) whereas the french is nice and lovely.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:20 am
by Meowth
question :

nautae boni ad pugnam durum properant (mine)
Nautae boni ad pugnam duram properant (answer key's)

?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:00 am
by Timothy
Meowth wrote:question :

nautae boni ad pugnam durum properant (mine)
Nautae boni ad pugnam duram properant (answer key's)

?


§ 65 Adjectives agree with their nouns in gender, number, and case.

What does duram describe?

- tim

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:38 am
by Meowth
describe pugna (battle)

i see... pugna - acc, FEM, sing /// duram - acc, FEM (duram), sing

i FORGOT pugna gender... grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

and i proclaim everyday men and women are the same (in a good way)... i think latin disagrees :x :D

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:58 pm
by Episcopus
Almost all nouns which end in -a are feminine. There are a few exceptions where they would naturally be masculine (e.g. nauta, sailor; poeta, poet)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:11 pm
by whiteoctave
yeah, nauta,poeta etc are derivatives from greek precedents, which gave occupational masculine nouns in -ths, and this results in a translitteration to -ta. coming from a solely latin point of view, as i originally did, it was a confusion to see these apparently 'feminine forms' - but there is logic to all.

~D

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:08 pm
by Episcopus
aha! I thought it was merely because you hardly would see a female sailor then :lol: