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BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:54 am
by mariek
We're working on adjectives and apposition. I am not sure of my answers for # 1, 2, & 6 in this exercise.<br /><br />--==<>==--<br /><br />#1 The wicked slave, who is your friend? Why does he not praise Galba, your master?<br /><br />I translated this as :<br /><br /> Serve male, quis est (tuus) ami:cus? Cu:r Galbam, (tuus) dominam, non laudat?<br /><br />My question is :<br /><br /> I wasn't sure whether I needed to add "tuus" since the meaning is "your friend" and "yuor master". Or is it assumed and "tua" can be left out?<br /><br />--==<>==--<br /><br />#2. My friend is from (ex) a village of Germany, my fatherland.<br /><br />I translated this as :<br /><br /> (Meus) Amicus ex vi:co: Germa:niae, patriae, est.<br /><br />My question is :<br /><br /> Same as above, should I include "meus" in front of "amicus"?<br /><br />--==<>==--<br /><br /># 6. She is hastening to the little cottage of Julia, the farmer's daughter.<br /><br />I answered this as :<br /><br /> (she) casam parvam Iu:liae, filiae agricolae, properat.<br /><br />My question is :<br /> <br /> Is this correct? I wasn't sure since it wasn't clear who "she" was so I didn't know what to use as the Subject/Nominative of the sentence.

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:15 am
by benissimus
#1 The wicked slave, who is your friend? Why does he not praise Galba, your master?<br />Serve male, quis est (tuus) ami:cus? Cu:r Galbam, (tuus) dominam, non laudat?<br />Good translation. I would generally recommend putting possessive adjectives (tuus/meus/noster/vester) down with the words unless it is very obvious to whom the noun belongs (i.e. family members Marcus loves his mother).<br /><br />#2 is looking good, but once again you should probably put "meae patriae".<br /><br />#6 also good. You probably don't need to say who "she" is if the context is already set. You can use ea if you want, but don't try to use it in anything other than the nominative or you'll find yourself in a new pronoun declension ;-/

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:10 pm
by mariek
<br />Thanks for the advice and correction, I really appreciate it. I guess it's safer to include more info to avoid any ambiguity. That was sloppy of me to forget "meae" in front of patriae.<br />

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:16 pm
by Skylax
[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=273;start=0#1646 date=1058676864]<br /><br />#1 The wicked slave, who is your friend? Why does he not praise Galba, your master?<br /><br />I translated this as :<br /><br /> Serve male, quis est (tuus) ami:cus? Cu:r Galbam, (tuus) dominam, non laudat?<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Please note that "Galba", although of the same declension than many feminine nouns, is a man's name, thus the gender of the adjectives etc. agreeing with this noun should be masculine.<br /><br />So :<br /><br />Cu:r Galbam, (tuum) dominum, non laudat?<br /><br />(Tuum : Accusative masculine agreeing with dominum)<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /># 6. She is hastening to the little cottage of Julia, the farmer's daughter.<br /><br />I answered this as :<br /><br /> (she) casam parvam Iu:liae, filiae agricolae, properat.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Don't forget to put an ad before casam parvam. If not, it would mean "she is hastening (the building of) the little cottage" (so naves properatae "ships hastily built", a phrase from Tacitus).<br /><br />Whitout further ad.<br /><br />Fernand

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:44 pm
by mariek
[quote author=Skylax link=board=3;threadid=273;start=0#1703 date=1058789782]<br />Please note that "Galba", although of the same declension than many feminine nouns, is a man's name, thus the gender of the adjectives etc. agreeing with this noun should be masculine.<br /><br />So :<br /><br />Cu:r Galbam, (tuum) dominum, non laudat?<br /><br />(Tuum : Accusative masculine agreeing with dominum)[/quote]<br /><br />I'm not completely sure I follow this. Tuus is masculine, but you're saying I need to decline "tuus" to it's Accusative form to make it "tuum" because "dominum" is in the Accusative?<br /><br />Let's say the person in question is a woman, for example, Diana. Then would it be :<br /> Cür Dianam, tuam dominam, not laudat?<br /><br />Where :<br /> Dianam=NOM of Diana<br /> tuam=NOm of tua<br /> dominam=NOM of domina?<br /><br />If that's the case, it's rather tricky to remember to get everything to agree!<br />
<br />Don't forget to put an ad before casam parvam. If not, it would mean "she is hastening (the building of) the little cottage"
<br /><br />Thanks for the tip, I will try to remember that one ... along with following "grata" with the Dative, and following "curat" with the Accusative.<br />

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:05 am
by benissimus
Adjectives are very shifty in that they must agree in gender and not in declension. You can have a 1st declension noun with an adjective declined by the second declension if the the gender is masculine (as in words agricola and nauta, as well as proper names).<br /><br />I wasn't sure about the use of properare, I'm glad Skylax cleared that up since some verbs tend to have "built-in" prepositions.

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:31 am
by mariek
[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=273;start=0#1747 date=1058832340]<br />Adjectives are very shifty in that they must agree in gender and not in declension. You can have a 1st declension noun with an adjective declined by the second declension if the the gender is masculine (as in words agricola and nauta, as well as proper names).[/quote]<br /><br />I am soooooo confused by this concept. :'( I understand what you mean, but I have a hard time applying it when I'm translating Latin, or when I'm trying to compose a sentence in Latin.<br /><br />agricola = masc, 1st declension.<br />bonus = masc, 2nd declension.<br /><br />agricola bonus - NOM S<br />agricolae bonï - NOM PL<br />agricolae bonï - GEN S<br />agricolärum bonörum - GEN PL<br />agricolae bonö - DAT S<br />agricolïs bonïs - DAT PL<br />agricolam bonum - ACC S<br />agricoläs bonös - ACC PL<br />agricolä bonö - ABL S<br />agricolïs bonïs - ABL PL<br />agricolä bone - VOC<br /><br />OK, I think I've just killed a few brain cells doing that.... :-\<br /><br />
I wasn't sure about the use of properare, I'm glad Skylax cleared that up since some verbs tend to have "built-in" prepositions.<br />
<br /><br />It's comforting to know that even the fluent can't remember all the little details. So I won't feel so bad if it takes me a while to get the hang of this. And, at least we now know you're still "human". ;) <br /><br />

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:20 am
by benissimus
Trust me, I'm far from fluent ;)

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:11 am
by mariek
[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=273;start=0#1756 date=1058844007]<br />Trust me, I'm far from fluent ;)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Stop right there! Bite your tongue! Don't say another word! I won't let you shatter my image of you... ;D After all, you were a "Textkit God" yesterday. 8) Did you notice that? Today you're a "Textkit Zealot". Jeff is having too much fun making changes to the Forum. Jeff shows up as "Textkit Administrator" ... I think he should change it to "Supreme Diety" ... I guess that would be nümen suprëmus in Latin. :) And if Jeff was female, that would be dea suprëma. In English I can imagine a "deity" being male or female, but I couldn't find a feminine version of the Latin word "nümus".<br /><br />Hey, I just noticed something about my Latin dictionary. If I look up a word in English, the Latin word won't have macrons. But then when I look up that Latin word on the Latin side of the dictionary, it will have macrons. So when I look up "deity", it gives me "numus", and when I look for "numus" on the Latin side of the dictionary, it shows up as "nümus". Interesting...<br /><br />

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:50 am
by ingrid70
Actually, nu:men is a neuter word of the third declension. Jeff would be a nu:men supre:mum. I don't think he would like that ;). <br /><br />Ingrid

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:55 pm
by mariek
<br />Oops. I just looked it up in my dictionary and whadya know, there's a little n after it. I must have read it as an m in my haste.<br /><br />I still need to get the hang of figuring out which declension a noun is. It would be great if the dictionaries included that for all the words, but I guess that would take the fun out of learning. ;) So does "nümen" decline like the word "nömen"? I'm just looking at the chart in the grammar section of my dictionary and this is the only word that ends with -en.<br />

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 6:25 pm
by Skylax
[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=273;start=0#1741 date=1058823860]<br /><br /><br />I'm not completely sure I follow this. Tuus is masculine, but you're saying I need to decline "tuus" to it's Accusative form to make it "tuum" because "dominum" is in the Accusative?<br /><br />Let's say the person in question is a woman, for example, Diana. Then would it be :<br /> Cür Dianam, tuam dominam, not laudat?<br /><br />Where :<br /> Dianam=NOM of Diana<br /> tuam=NOm of tua<br /> dominam=NOM of domina?<br /><br /><br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Definitely so. But what is NOM ? Isn't it rather ACCusative?

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:37 pm
by Episcopus
[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=273;start=0#1756 date=1058844007]<br />Trust me, I'm far from fluent ;)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />ei puerõ nõn credõ !!

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:39 pm
by mariek
Definitely so. But what is NOM ? Isn't it rather ACCusative?
<br /><br />Oh, you're absolutely right. They're all Accusative. And it's so obvious with the -am endings on those words. <br />

Re:BLD Ex82II Pg35

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:46 pm
by mariek
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=273;start=0#1814 date=1058902635]<br />ei puerõ nõn credõ !! [/quote]<br /><br />You know I love trying to figure out what you're trying to say in Latin. :)<br /><br />I'm guessing : Ah! I don't believe (that) boy.<br />Or maybe : Ah! I don't believe him. ???<br /><br />ei = Ah!<br />puerö = boy (DAT or ABL)<br />credö = I believe<br /><br />