BLD § 258 I Latin-English Exercise

[Timothy]

The Romans invade the Enemy's Country

Olim pedites Romani cum equitibus velocibus in hostium urbem iter faciebant. Ubi non longe afuerunt, raperunt agricolam, qui eis viam brevem et facilem demonstravit. Iam Romani moenia alta, turris validas aliaque opera urbis videre poterant. In moenibus stabant multi principes. Principes ubi viderunt Romanos, iusserunt civis lapides aliaque tela de muris iacere. Tum milites fortes contineri a proelio non poterant et acer imperator signum tuba dari iussit. Summa vi omnes maturaverunt. Imperator Sexto legato impedimenta omnia mandavit. Sextus impedimenta in summo colle conlocavit. Grave et acre erat proelium, sed hostes non pares Romanis erant. Alii interfecti alii capti sunt. Apud captivos erant mater sororque regis. Pauci Romanorum ab hostibus vulnerati sunt. Secundum proelium Romanis erat gratum. Foruna
fortibus semper favet.

Once upon a time Roman soldiers with swift cavalry made a forced march to the enemy city. When they had not gone far they seized a farmer, who showed them a shorter, easier road. Now the Romans were able to to see the high walls, strong towers and other works in the city. On the towers were standing many chiefs. The Chiefs, when they saw the Romans, ordered the civilians to hurl rocks and other weapons from the walls. At that time the strong solders were unable to continue with battle and the keen general ordered the tuba signal given. All the men hastened greatly. The General gave to Sextus all the baggage. Sextus placed the baggage on the highest hill. The battle was grave and bitter, but the enemy were not the equals of the Romans. some were killed others captured. Among the captives were the mother and sister of the kings. Few of the Romans had been wounded by the enemy. The second battle was pleasing to the Romans. Fortune always favors the strong.

- Tim

post scriptum: edits to Latin spelling; see ingrid70's remarks below.

[ingrid70]

non longe afuerunt: they were not far away, which may or may not be the opposite of they had not gone far. Depends on the distance form starting point and goal .

Tum milities fortes continueri a proelio non poterant : should be contineri ; i think the soldiers could not be kept from battle, i.e. were eager to start fighting.

Summa vi omnes maturaverunt: they all hastened with very great force.

Apud captivos erant mater soroque regis: only one king.

Secundum proelium romanis erat gratum: secundus can mean favourable as well as second.

Ingrid

[benissimus]

Ingrid stole all the good stuff like she always does in the BLD forum There were a few little things she didn't mention that you might want to know:

qui eis viam brevem et facilem demonstravit
who showed them a shorter, easier road

just "short and easy"; it does not says "...viam breviorem et faciliorem..."

aliaque opera urbis videre poterant
and other works in the city

This is probably the best sounding way to translate it, provided that you remember urbis is really a genitive (not a locative).

In moenibus stabant multi principes
On the towers were standing many chiefs

not towers (turribus), but walls.

Pauci Romanorum ab hostibus vulnerati sunt
Few of the Romans had been wounded by the enemy

this is perfect, not pluperfect. "had been wounded" would be vulnerati erant (sometimes fuerant). remember that depending on the articles in English, this sentence could come out differently: "a few of the Romans were wounded" has the opposite emphasis of "few of the Romans were wounded".

Secundum proelium romanis erat gratum: secundus can mean favourable as well as second.

It seems kind of odd to have two words meaning "favorable" in the same sentence (and modifying the same word!). I suppose there could have been two battles, but it depends on the larger context, which you are probably more familiar with than I.

for fortis, forte you might find that "brave" or "bold" is at times a better word than "strong". Good job and keep up the good work!

[ingrid70]

Ingrid stole all the good stuff like she always does in the BLD forum

I do have the advantage of having my version ready for comparison in a Word document (ergo, the new version of the key, which benefits greatly from Tim's work too).

Secundum proelium romanis erat gratum: secundus can mean favourable as well as second.

It seems kind of odd to have two words meaning "favorable" in the same sentence (and modifying the same word!). I suppose there could have been two battles, but it depends on the larger context, which you are probably more familiar with than I.

I translated secundum with favourable, gratum with pleasing: ergo: the favourable battle was pleasing to the Romans.

Ingrid

[Timothy]

gratias vobis omnibus ago. (Where did I steal that!?! A nice phrase.)

sigh. This was a little experiment for me. I translated this at sight over lunch. No lookups, used a bit of Hale's method, slightly rushed given the time frame. The only concession was that I got to read the Latin two or three times because I transcribed it and my Latin typing, although improving isn't fluid yet. I was able to resist the temptation to rework it at home as the intention was to obtain a accurate critique of the translation.

I. I've corrected the Latin in the original post so as not to mislead others.

II. My English is getting in the way with continere. As a result I've tried to track down the etymology of the problem words here.

contineo, -ere, -ui, -tentus: prefix com-, to come together, + tenere, to hold.

(Webster's)
English contain:
- from the Latin continere

English continue:
- from Latin continuare, to join, unite, make continuous
-- from Latin continuus, adj, continuous
--- from continere

I found this interesting in that I had not previously associated these two words other than by spelling. And I discovered a new word, continuus

At some stage of the game I hope to discover how the Romans went about coining new words. I know much of it is from the Greek but that's been bothering me because I keep coming across references to the aversion to the Greeks even though it is at odds with the education method. I'm taking it that it was a conflict of public versus private positions. In any event, I've very curious about how these nouns and verbs were formed.

It appears that adjectives (continuus) can be made from verbs (contineo) using the participle stem (continu-) and appending the endings -us, -a, -um. I'm wondering if this is a one-way street or if it is possible to form new verbs from nouns? Anyway, this is tangential.

III. viam brevem et facilem

Ah, I made a left turn there! But it looks like it was to a profit!! OK, I used a comparative form of English (short-er, easi-er) where it did not exist in the Latin (viam breviorem et faciliorem) which I haven't run into yet but am aware of. (I have to wonder how the Romans would know the route was short and easy unless they had something to compare to, but I guess this was a very honest farmer they accosted. )

IV. aliaque opera urbis

Guilty as charged. Wouldn't you know it, the locative ablative is the next section and I was reading ahead and...well, it was on my mind. The genitive is the proper form.

V. moenibus

I have no idea how my towers appeared especially since I had just seen the high walls.

note to self: check perscription dosage.

VI. vulnerati sunt

mission in life: Latin tenses at sight.

VII. Secundum proelium; forte, fortis

Vocabulary, vocabulary, vocabulary. gratias on fortis/brave. strong is getting tired as a translation.

- tim

[ingrid70]

At some stage of the game I hope to discover how the Romans went about coining new words. I know much of it is from the Greek but that's been bothering me because I keep coming across references to the aversion to the Greeks even though it is at odds with the education method. I'm taking it that it was a conflict of public versus private positions. In any event, I've very curious about how these nouns and verbs were formed.

Allen and Greenough have quite a lot on word formation in their grammar. Look at page 151 (pdf-count).

As to the Graecophilia; as far as I know, some people were very much impressed by everything Greek, others were indeed opposed to it. Try Googling on the terms: Scipio, Cato, Greek for more info than you probably want.

Ingrid