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D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:29 am
by mariek
I am working through Part II of Exercise # 39 on Page 19. I went through it once, then made minor changes on about half of them when I looked it over. I think I have gotten them correct, except I'm not sure about #4 and #8 because these two sentences are a little bit more complex. Is my Latin translation correct ?<br /><br />4.<br />The farmer's daughter loves the waters of the forest.<br />Filia agricolarum aquas silvarum amat.<br /><br />8.<br />Diana's arrows are killing the wild beasts of the land.<br />Sagita Dianae feras terrarum necant.<br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:51 am
by jagorev
Shouldn't it be Sagittae as arrows is in the plural?

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:53 am
by Koala
dear Mariek<br /><br />the latin, as you have it in Q 4, means, I think:<br /><br />she loves the waters of the woods of the farmers

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:56 am
by bingley
agricolae -- the farmer's/of the farmer<br /><br />agricolarum -- the farmers'/of the farmers

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:22 am
by mariek
[quote author=jagorev link=board=3;threadid=239;start=0#1232 date=1057971105]<br />Shouldn't it be Sagittae as arrows is in the plural?<br />[/quote]Hmm... you're right ! So my revised answer is this :<br /><br />Diana's arrows are killing the wild beasts of the land.<br />Sagittae Dianae feras terrarum necant.<br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:24 am
by benissimus
You can delete it --v<br /><br />In your original sentence, you wrote "sagitae" which I just found out means "witches"! Good thing you changed that! We wouldn't want Diana's witches to be killing all of our land's wild beasts!

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:30 am
by mariek
[quote author=Koala link=board=3;threadid=239;start=0#1233 date=1057971198]<br />the latin, as you have it in Q 4, means, I think:<br />she loves the waters of the woods of the farmers<br />[/quote]<br />My head hurts now... :-[<br /><br />My original answer for #4: Filia agricolarum aquas silvarum amat.<br />My translation of this : The farmers' daughter love the waters of the forests. ???<br /><br />Which looks nothing like the original question for #4 : The farmer's daughter loves the waters of the forest.<br /><br />So my revised answer is this : Filia agricolae aquas silvae amat. Is this any better?<br /> <br /><br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:34 am
by jagorev
I answered it the same as your last answers (both questions).

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:35 am
by mariek
[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=239;start=0#1242 date=1057973087]<br />In your original sentence, you wrote "sagitae" which I just found out means "witches"! Good thing you changed that! We wouldn't want Diana's witches to be killing all of our land's wild beasts!<br />[/quote]<br />I didn't realize that such a small misspelling could cause so much trouble... :o

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:36 am
by jagorev
No. Sorry. The one about Diana I wrote: "Sagittae Dianae sunt feras terrae necant"<br /><br />Arrows - nominative plural<br />(of)<br />Diana - genitive singular<br />are - sunt<br />wild beasts - accusative plural<br />(of)<br />land - genitive singular<br />kill(ing) - verb, agreeing in case

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:48 am
by bingley
To jagorev:<br /><br />I think Mariek's answer is better. Latin does not have the difference between the present continuous (are killing) and the present simple (kill) that English does, so they would both end up here as necant.<br /><br />----<br />To benissimus:<br /><br />Thanks. Extraneous messages deleted.<br /><br />Rogo quid feris terrarum magis placeat -- sagittis neci aut a sagitis neci.

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:05 am
by mariek
[quote author=jagorev link=board=3;threadid=239;start=0#1247 date=1057973815]<br />No. Sorry. The one about Diana I wrote: "Sagittae Dianae sunt feras terrae necant"<br />[/quote]<br />Oh, you just pointed out that "the land" is singular and I made it plural by using "terrarum". Oops. I'm not sure about using "sunt" because so far my examples haven't used it yet. I'm not that far into the book, maybe they'll cover it later.<br /><br />#8. Diana's arrows are killing the wild beasts of the land.<br /><br />My 3rd revision is : Sagittae Dianae feras terrae necant.<br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:12 am
by mariek
[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=239;start=0#1253 date=1057978096]<br />Rogo quid feris terrarum magis placeat -- sagittis neci aut a sagitis neci. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />I think you're asking which is better, death by arrow or death at the hands of a witch. I guess the answer would depend on what the witch intends to do... ;)<br /><br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:26 am
by benissimus
I think it means "I ask what pleases the beasts of the lands more -- to be killed by arrows or to be killed by witches."<br /><br />neci=necari?

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 10:40 am
by bingley
That's what it was supposed to mean, yes. And yes, it should have been necari :-\ twice :-[:-[

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:59 pm
by Episcopus
Would there be any difference in pronunciation <br /><br />sagitta<br />sagita?<br /><br />nam mea mater est sagita mihi

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 10:37 pm
by mariek
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=239;start=15#1269 date=1058039981]<br />Would there be any difference in pronunciation <br /><br />sagitta<br />sagita?<br />[/quote]<br />I was wondering the same thing. My guess is that the middle syllable is pronounced differently. sah-giht-ta vs sah-gye-ta. ???<br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:29 am
by benissimus
Every letter is pronounced. You must be extremly precise when you say a word. Sa-gi-ta is slightly different from Sa-git-ta.

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:02 am
by mariek
Seems like a talking dictionary would be helpful, but I suppose that such an animal doesn't exist? I used to have an English dictionary CDROM that included audio files that pronounced the word in either an American accent or a British accent.

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:01 pm
by ingrid70
You need a pronunciation guide if you are learning English (I know, I'm Dutch :). Latin is (as far as we know I suppose, as there are no native speakers left) more straightforward in its pronunciation. There's a guide at the beginning of D'Ooge's book, that sums it all up. For most letters, it's one letter = one sound. Try that in English.<br /><br />Do try to remember the long vowels when you learn the vocab. When I first learned Latin, I didn't (they weren't marked in our book); by now I've found out that I put the stress wrong in about a third of the words :(. <br /><br />Vale,<br />Ingrid<br /><br /><br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:43 pm
by mariek
[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=239;start=15#1310 date=1058104885][/quote]There's a guide at the beginning of D'Ooge's book, that sums it all up.<br />Yep, there's a guide for pronunciation and syllable strees at the beginning of the book. Still, I feel some uncertainty about pronunciation unless I can actually hear it. I still feel like I'm taking a wild guess at it.<br /><br />Do try to remember the long vowels when you learn the vocab.<br />I think that's where reading aloud helps. I can see how easy it is to try to read everything my own way which is not correct. I can understand how comprehension of oral Latin would be easier. Like nom vs abl in those singular -a nouns. They look the same, but sound different.<br /><br />

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:54 pm
by benissimus
I wouldn't trust that pronunciation guide too well. Those are old pronunciations of words and some of them have changed a great deal. They also like to use words like adz... that's a word most people don't even recognize!

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:11 am
by mariek
[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=239;start=15#1337 date=1058136897]<br />I wouldn't trust that pronunciation guide too well. Those are old pronunciations of words and some of them have changed a great deal.<br /><br />So how do you know what the correct pronunciation is?<br />[/quote]

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:14 am
by benissimus
If you mean how do I know how it was really spoken, then the answer is... I don't. Most of our modern books teach a certain pronunciation, which I know I posted somewhere on this board in reply to a post (but can't find).<br />I would trust Allen & Greenough for the little-known exceptions in pronunciation, but a more modern book for basic vowel pronunciations.

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:11 am
by mariek
Was this the message you were referring to?<br /><br />[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=189;start=0#930 date=1056347001]<br />Long vowels are often marked by a macron, or overline in learning texts but not in genuine Latin. These are to help with pronunciation so that you can differentiate between long and short vowels. Short vowels are really just the same as long vowels except that you pronounce them in a "clipped" manner. If you know any of the Romance languages, they are all pretty similar to Latin. For all intents and purposes, these should suffice:<br /><br />Long (with macron line) Short (without macron)<br />A- AH as in "fAther" a- UH as in "galA"<br />E- AY as in "rEin" or "gAte" e- EH as in "pEt"<br />I- EE as in "fEEt" or "Ink" i- IH as in "pIck"<br />O- OH as in "pOke" o- O as in "Or"<br />U- OOH as in "gOOse" or "flUte" u- U as in "pUt"<br /><br />The Greek letter "upsilon" is found in many words adopted by Latin and is pronounced similarly to a French "u" which is quite undescribable unfortunately if you do not already know. If you cannot find someone to demonstrate it for you, I have heard it explained as a mix of (Latin) "I" and "U" or as a "half-assed" "O" :). It has both long and short forms just like all the other vowels.<br /><br />There are also a variety of diphthong, letters that sort of are pronounced quickly when they are together and become one syllable.<br /><br />AE or Æ is pronounced like "I" as in "rIde".<br />OE or Œ is pronounced like "OY" as in "bOY" or "bOIl".<br />EI is pronounced like "AY" as in "rEIn".<br />AU is pronounced like "OW" as in "pOUnd".<br />EU is a rare diphthong; just combine a Latin "E" and "U" and you will have it. Don't use it unless you know it is pronounced as such.<br />UI is a rare diphthong; same as above.<br /><br />There are some older diphthong such as AI, but you probably won't encounter those unless you are studying very old Latin.<br />[/quote]

Re:D'Ooge Ex 39

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:25 am
by benissimus
That is it! :)