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Do God’s actions change His status?

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Do God’s actions change His status?

Postby Ibn Taymiyyah » Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:54 pm

If God is ultimately perfect: why does he do things?

How do we understand the fact that God does things in light of the fact that He is ultimately perfect.

For example:

Before creating the heavens and earth God was ultimately perfect.

Did the act of creating the heavens and earth increase His perfectness? Was there any room for His perfectness to increase in the first place?

Or is it that He willed for things to happen in eternity and they happen without Him doing anything?
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Postby Rhuiden » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:17 pm

God does things because He wants to. He is perfect and all that He does or creates is also perfect. He could not be God otherwise.

Now as far as the question of what He "wills" to happen. God has a plan and purpose for everything He has created but He does not force that plan and purpose on us. We have the choice.

Your question seems to be leading the the next question of "why did He create evil" or some variation of it. God did not create evil...evil is simply the absence God's presence. So you might argue that man, in our sinful state, created evil by rejecting God.

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Re: Do God’s actions change His status?

Postby edonnelly » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:34 pm

Ibn Taymiyyah wrote:If God is ultimately perfect: why does he do things?

How do we understand the fact that God does things in light of the fact that He is ultimately perfect.

For example:

Before creating the heavens and earth God was ultimately perfect.

Did the act of creating the heavens and earth increase His perfectness? Was there any room for His perfectness to increase in the first place?

Or is it that He willed for things to happen in eternity and they happen without Him doing anything?

Perhaps the problem is our concept of time. We view time as either past, present or future. Perhaps God exists independent of time (another of His creations) and sees the whole universe (past, present and future) as a single entity.

[As a side note, I would like to add that a universe without time would certainly simplify some of those verb forms.]
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Postby Timotheus » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:00 am

My opinion; is God Perfect: yes are we: no,

my opinion: is there absolute truth? yes. does man have the ability to determine it wether individually or consensually? no.

Can we judge God? no.

In America were a people 2000-2500 years ago called the Anasazii. WE see cliff dwellings, old mounds in half moon shapes and depressions of ancient cities and kiva's, stones for grinding maze, sharp stones for tools but with all this we know nothing about them. can we make moral determinations concerning their culture? do we know there language? In reality in all we do know we know nothing.

Our so called scientist say that dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago and then died out. yet since the scientific process can't be used it becomes speculation and belief (a religion). In Peru a cave was opened up containing 50,000 stones having engravings all dating about 2000 bce. many were carved with dinosaurs on them one had a man smoking a pipe riding on the back af a triceratops...

since galileo most believe that the earth goes around the sun and the sun goes around the milky way and the galaxy keeps expanding. yet no explanation is given that even the ancients noticed that all the constellations of the universe rotate around the the earth/north star axis and so dependable that major calendars in antiquity were made from these.

We know nothing and we havn't become any smarter than those in the past. we need to quit judging GOd.
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Postby Emma_85 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:30 am

my opinion: God is not perfect because he doesn't exist.
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Postby copain » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:35 pm

    My opinion: God is perfect, the world seems unperfect and to us humans is not been given the full cognitive faculty to comprehend or explain this in a logical or scientific manner.
    We have just to believe it !
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Postby Bert » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:05 pm

My conviction: God is perfect and his actions are perfect. So his actions do not change his status. Our interpretation of his actions are not perfect of course.
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Postby Emma_85 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:07 pm

there, now that we have all stated our opinions can we drop the subject? :)
(or if you would like a discussion on religion I beg you post here Ibn Taymiyyah - you may be interested in reading what others here on textkit have already discussed when it comes to religion)
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Postby Ibn Taymiyyah » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:43 am

edonnelly wrote:Perhaps the problem is our concept of time. We view time as either past, present or future. Perhaps God exists independent of time (another of His creations) and sees the whole universe (past, present and future) as a single entity.

[As a side note, I would like to add that a universe without time would certainly simplify some of those verb forms.]


Great idea. But how could we emagine the world without time?

Emma_85 wrote:there, now that we have all stated our opinions can we drop the subject? :)
(or if you would like a discussion on religion I beg you post here Ibn Taymiyyah - you may be interested in reading what others here on textkit have already discussed when it comes to religion)


Please read my post again. It has almost nothing to do with religion!
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Postby Geoff » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:02 pm

Any post beginning "If God..." is most certainly about religion. Change is defined by time. God Himself does not change else he is not God (i.e. omni-...). Edonelly made that point well.

However, God does act upon our material existence in ways we perceive as change and thereby our ability to understand his perfection is enhanced. Sometimes we state that as God changing rather than ourselves. Typical of one who tends to think of themself as a god.

The "status" of God cannot be legitimately be discussed without a standard. Those with the wrong standard think lowly of God and those with the right standard think highly of God. Study the nature of the word "glorify" in its etymology and consider the phrase in the OT of the Bible "blasphemed among the gentiles".
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Postby Kynetus Valesius » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:37 pm

Nescioquis haec scripsit:

God is not perfect because he doesn't exist.

Ego autem rem omnino aliter judico: Nisi extaret Deus non esset ille perfectus quod est definitione. Nisi fallor Sanctus Anselemus aliquid simile censuit.
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Re: Do God’s actions change His status?

Postby joja » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:26 am

Re: THE MIND OF GOD

" You know we often talk about a great unchanging God, Whose Word
does not change. And when we speak of Him after that manner we often
get a view of Him that makes Him seem very impersonal. It is as though
God made the whole universe and all the laws that pertain to it and then
stood back and became a great impersonal God. It is as though God
made a way of salvation for lost mankind, that way being the cross,
and then when the death of Christ has atoned for our sins, and His
resurrection gave us an open door to Him, God just folded His arms
and stood back. It is as if we majored in believing in a great Creator,
Who having created, lost personal interest in His creation. Now I say
that is how too many people are apt to think. But that is wrong thinking,
for God is GOVERNING IN THE AFFAIRS OF MEN RIGHT NOW.
HE IS BOTH CREATOR AND SUSTAINER.
Colossians 1:16-17.
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven,
and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones,
or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him,
and for Him:
And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist."

"He is a Sovereign God. By His own counsel He purposed the plan
of the salvation of His own elect which He foreknew.
The Son died upon the cross to establish the means of Salvation
and the Holy Spirit carefully executes the will of the Father. He is
working all things at this moment according to the purpose of His own
will. He is right in the midst of it all. He is in the midst of His church.
This great Creator, Saviour-God is faithfully working amongst His own
right now as the great Shepherd of the sheep. His very existence is for
His own. He loves them and cares for them. His eye is ever upon them.
When the Word says that "your lives are hid with Christ in God"
it means exactly what it says. Oh, I am so glad that my God abides faithful.
He is true to Himself, He won't lie. He is true to the Word, He will back it up.
He is true to us, He will lose none of us, but raise us up in the last day.
I am glad that I am resting in His faithfulness." - William M. Branham

Philippians 1:6.
"Being confident of this very thing, that He Which hath begun
a good work in you will perform it until the Day of Jesus Christ."
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