Vegetarianism

[Carola]

Vegetarian is just another word for picky eater.

. Hello, anyone ever heard of Buddhists or Hindus? A big chunk of the world's population don't eat meat for religious reasons - I don't see most Indians as "picky eaters", they take food very seriously (and all seem to be expert chefs!) And of course there is that other notoriously picky group - the world's several million poor- who would probably just love to eat a decent meal of BBQ steak. Unfortunately they have to make do with a bit of rice or lentils, and not a trendy bistro in sight!

[Bardo de Saldo]

"Hello ..." ~Carola

...ello...ello...ello... [echo].

Buddhists and Hindus aren't vegetarian, unless they are for reasons other than being Buddhist or Hindu.

The poor aren't vegetarian, either, unless they are for reasons other than being poor. I do feel very bad about the poor not being able to afford BBQ, though, so I'm with you on that one; but not bad enough to feel guilty when I fry me a one-pounder NY steak later for dinner.

So, Carola, I'm not convinced that vegetarians aren't just picky eaters. You can try rhetoric next time instead of emotional blackmail.

[yadfothgildloc]

Buddhists and Hindus aren't vegetarian, unless they are for reasons other than being Buddhist or Hindu.

It's in the 8-fold path of Buddhism not to eat meat. I can't speak for Hindus, but know that they religiously avoid beef. I understand that most of their cuisine is vegetarian out of a basically agrarian society.

[Carola]

"Hello ..." ~Carola

...ello...ello...ello... [echo].

Buddhists and Hindus aren't vegetarian, unless they are for reasons other than being Buddhist or Hindu.

The poor aren't vegetarian, either, unless they are for reasons other than being poor. I do feel very bad about the poor not being able to afford BBQ, though, so I'm with you on that one; but not bad enough to feel guilty when I fry me a one-pounder NY steak later for dinner.

So, Carola, I'm not convinced that vegetarians aren't just picky eaters. You can try rhetoric next time instead of emotional blackmail.

I can only assume you have never read anything of the beliefs of Buddhists or Hindus - regard for all forms of life is held to be sacred. Having attended quite a few weddings and similar occasions with Hindu people I can say at first hand that most don't eat meat - haven't you ever heard of "sacred cows"? And I have various written teachings from Tibetan Buddhism at home - and guess what - they say you should try not to eat meat. I also don't think my Jewish friends are "picky" because they don't eat pork or shellfish or Muslims because they don't drink alcohol either. But of course not everyone follows all the teachings of their religion.
And if it is "emotional blackmail" to think about the poor and starving, then I will happily be blackmailed every day of my life.

[GlottalGreekGeek]

In a Jewish restaurant I once saw a dish with calamari. I told my mother "How can this be Jewish cuisine if it has calamari?" My mother replied "The Jews who don't care about the Kosher laws have to eat too."

On the other extreme, my mother and I also ate in another Jewish restaurant where the waiter made us get our water bottles off the table because the water wasn't kosher. My mother replied that there is no such thing as non-kosher water. The waiter said we had to go to the synagogue and have it approved by the rabbi if we wanted to have it on the restaurant's table. My mother objected that the water came from Israel and therefore was kosher (partially true: the bottle was from Israel, but it had been refilled since leaving Israel). Eventually, we took the water out of sight, and only sipped when the waiter wasn't looking. Whether the waiter was just trying to make us buy the restaurant's expensive water, or whether he just did not know much about the rules of kosher, we will never know.

[Eureka]

On the other extreme, my mother and I also ate in another Jewish restaurant where the waiter made us get our water bottles off the table because the water wasn't kosher. My mother replied that there is no such thing as non-kosher water. The waiter said we had to go to the synagogue and have it approved by the rabbi if we wanted to have it on the restaurant's table. My mother objected that the water came from Israel and therefore was kosher (partially true: the bottle was from Israel, but it had been refilled since leaving Israel). Eventually, we took the water out of sight, and only sipped when the waiter wasn't looking. Whether the waiter was just trying to make us buy the restaurant's expensive water, or whether he just did not know much about the rules of kosher, we will never know.

"Expensive water"? Most restaurants have free water! This 'restaurant' wasn't passing around ekkies, was it?

[Bardo de Saldo]

"I can only assume ..." ~Carola

Try harder, Carola.

"... Hindu people ... most don't eat meat ... teachings from Tibetan Buddhism ... say you should try not to eat meat." ~Carola

We're getting closer to the truth, Carola, which is that most Hindus and Buddhists are not vegetarian, and that it is not a condition of Hinduism or Buddhism to be a vegetarian.

"- and guess what -" ~Carola

Conclude (I wouldn't ask you to guess in a philosophical discussion) which of the following statements is false:

Jehova's Witnesses are Christian.
Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian.
Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian because they are Jehova's Witnesses.
Therefore, Christians are vegetarian, and Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian because they are Christian.

Ok, you have convinced me that religiously-motivated vegetarians are not picky eaters. They're just misguided. They seem to think that because some "spiritual" dudes (the schizoid type) don't crave meat the way more carnal folks do, you can reverse the equation and become "spiritual" by not eating meat. Reminds me of a woman I met 20 years ago, who on her path to the 7th Heaven had decided not to contaminate herself with money. Instead of not using money, every time she bought something she handed her wallet over to the clerk and asked him to take the money needed and put the change back in the wallet.

Saying that the poor who cannot afford barbeque are vegetarian is like saying that someone in jail on bread and water is acqua-cerealian.

As for people with religious dietary taboos, they're just provincial and small minded.

[chad]

Jehova's Witnesses are Christian.
Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian.
Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian because they are Jehova's Witnesses.
Therefore, Christians are vegetarian, and Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian because they are Christian.

my chihuahua took one glance and told me

1. the 1st conclusion "christians are vegetarian" is an illicit minor conclusion as "christians" is distributed in the conclusion but not in the minor premiss, and

2. the 2nd conclusion "Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian because they are Christian" has as its major premiss the illicit minor distribution of the middle term "christians are vegetarian"!

what is he talking about?!?

[edonnelly]

my chihuahua took one glance and told me

1. the 1st conclusion "christians are vegetarian" is an illicit minor conclusion as "christians" is distributed in the conclusion but not in the minor premiss, and

2. the 2nd conclusion "Jehova's Witnesses are vegetarian because they are Christian" has as its major premiss the illicit minor distribution of the middle term "christians are vegetarian"!

what is he talking about?!?

He's not making a logical argument, he's illustrating flawed logic. You and your chihuahua are reinforcing his point.

[Bardo de Saldo]

"...the beliefs of Buddhists or Hindus - regard for all forms of life is held to be sacred." ~Carola

Maybe we live in different worlds, Carola. Maybe you could take me to India or Tibet and show me an example of a society where all forms of life are held to be sacred. Maybe you could point out a guy who, after working 16 hours straight in a sweat shop for peanuts, going home and beating the cr&p out of his wife and kids, and stopping by a brothel in the slums of Calcutta (or Lhasa, for that matter) to f&*k the brains out of a child, walks gingerly over an ant to make sure that he doesn't step on his reincarnated grandpa.

"... my chihuahua ..." ~Chad

Tell your Chihuahua to find the major legit conclusion in this: [emoticon of my a%s].

[GlottalGreekGeek]

"Expensive water"? Most restaurants have free water! This 'restaurant' wasn't passing around ekkies, was it?

This was in Europe. European restaurants do not always give free water (which is somewhat logical, since water bills are higher).

[Bardo de Saldo]

"Hello ...?" ~Carola
"I can only assume ..." ~Carola
"... and guess what ..." ~Carola
"my chihuahua took one glance and told me ... what is he talking about?!?" ~Chad

Those were underhanded ad hominem attacks against my claims, and this is a formal complaint:

"Oy!" ~Tickle-Me-Schlomo

(Idioms are not just a manner of speech, Carola, they also have meanings.)

[Bardo de Saldo]

"... I've never left Europe ..." ~Emma

Wise decision, Emma, if I were a Primitive I'd have you for dinner.

(Don't take it as sexual innuendo, you just look very nutritious.)

[Emma_85]

"Expensive water"? Most restaurants have free water! This 'restaurant' wasn't passing around ekkies, was it?

This was in Europe. European restaurants do not always give free water (which is somewhat logical, since water bills are higher).

that's not the reason they don't give free water - the reason is that they know you'll buy more expensive drinks or expensive water if they don't give you free water...

[sisyphus]

that's not the reason they don't give free water

Quite. Last time i looked it was illegal in Britain to charge money for water. The loophole is that you can charge anything you like for packaging or for the service, which includes pouring it!

In clubs they even put bouncers in the lavatories to stop you drinking from the taps, which forces you to buy bottles from the bar at £5-10 each.

[chad]

10 pounds for water? i thought we were paying max when we bought a few bottles of 10 euro water at a ministry of sound nightclub in paris this year, same price as the vodka oranges... but it's worth it... when you drink 10 or more bottles of nightclub tap water (when young and poor) you feel strangely ill in the gut the next day...

[sisyphus]

strangely ill in the gut the next day...

My wallet must be more sensitive than my gut

[Bardo de Saldo]

"... paying ... 10 euro water at ... nightclub in paris ..." ~Chad

Please tell me that at least you got laid!

[Laurent]

Sorry about switching back to the initial subject but... Do you never feel as if you had eaten nothing after having eaten salad, for instance...? Not that I am a big fatty guy who has never eaten enough (haha, total opposite in fact), but I can hardly figure how one can have enough of a salad... I mean, you must truely hate meat for that... I tried many times to become vegetarian (I don't eat lots of meat anyway), but after having eaten vegetables massively for a week, I feet... strange, haha.

[GlottalGreekGeek]

1) Vegetarian diets include a lot more than vegetables (such as grains, sugars, fruits, beans, and for non-vegans, dairy products and eggs)

2) I crave (désire) vegetables if I don't eat any for a few days. I almost never crave meat.

[Laurent]

Of course, of course. I know, it's a stereotype, but I mean, suppose you feel like eating very much, like, a big rage, what are you going to eat?

[GlottalGreekGeek]

Krupuk! Or whatever I can get my hands on (and vegetarian fare is cheaper)