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What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

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What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:11 pm

Just open this thread I will explain why I decided to start this thread.

First I wanted to try something like the weather thread but that involved different vocabulary. Further weather is something that just happens to us. It's not entirely true that postings on the weather thread are as a result passive descriptions - for example quite a few posts describe how the poster responded to some change in the weather. Nonetheless, I thought it would be nice to choose something that involves a more active take on things. My first thought was "What I eat today" but in truth its not something I would normally tell my friends. However, talking about how my Greek study is something I am always keen to talk about - indeed I have to hold back for fear being a bore.

The second reason is as a result What is the Grammar-Translation method? I have had to confront the fact that the language study I do is heavily biased towards methods that I have grave doubts about how effective they are. The reason is because how I study is very much the result of some things "taking" and becoming habits. Those habits are a big reason why have not given up the study of Greek despite being rather stuck and so I so I hesitate to switch to different methods for fear of ending up not doing anything at all. This is apparently a common dilemma - habits are essential to ensure a language learner keeps putting in the time every day but harmful in that they prevent the changing of methods that is essential for success. My hope is if this thread works the way the weather thread has worked for me then the need to think of something new to say will mean that I will be seeking out new study methods just to keep up what will become the habit of posting to this thread.

But feel free to join in anyhow you like. I do suggest that you don't try and put down everything you do in a day - that way you may quickly run out of things to say. However, the only real rule is that it should be in Greek (with the exception of corrections). So lets see how it goes.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:55 pm

τήμερον ἐν τῷ κήπῳ ἐκέλευσα ἐκείνην τὴν ἀλώπεκα «μὴ σκάψον τὸν κῆπον».
(ἐλπίζω ὅτι ἡ ἀλώπηξ κατανοεῖ τὴν ἑλληνική γλώσσην).
(ἐλπίζω ὅτι οἱ γείτονες οὐ ἤκουσαν). :oops:
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:39 am

ἐλπίζω ὅτι


Smyth : 2018. Verbs of thinking almost always take the infinitive. Such are: think ἡγοῦμαι, οἴομαι, δοκῶ, νομίζω; hope ἐλπίζω; suppose ὑπολαμβάνω; suspect ὑποπτεύω; guess εἰκάζω; feel confident πιστεύω; disbelieve ἀπιστῶ. The use of ὡς is rare, while ὅτι is very rare (2580).
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:33 am

ἐχθές εὑρόν γεραιὰν βύβλον. χρόνῳ δὲ συχνῷ ἤλπιζον εὑρεῖν τοιαύτην βύβλον οὐ περὶ παντός ἀλλὰ ἀκριβῆ οὔσης. τήμερον ἐποίουν μετὰ ταὐτῆς βύβλου.
seneca2008 wrote:
ἐλπίζω ὅτι


Smyth : 2018. Verbs of thinking almost always take the infinitive.

εὐχαριστῶ σοι.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:43 pm

ἀνέγνως λόγοι ἐκ Ξενοφονος περὶ μεγάλων στρουθῶν. ἔπειτα ἤκουον ἐκείνους λόγους καὶ ἔλεγον καὶ τέλος ἐμίμνῃσκον.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby mwh » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:37 am

ἐγὼ ἀνέγνων λόγους τινας Σωκρατικούς, ἐκ δὲ Ξενοφῶντος οὐδέν.

(daivid. Try asking yourself why you used nominative λόγοι.)
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:48 pm

νυκτὸς ἠγέρθην καὶ οὐ ἐδυνάμην καθύπνωσον ὥστε ἔλεγον τοὺς λόγους ἐκ Ξενοφῶντος οὕς ἔμνησα.
mwh wrote:ἐγὼ ἀνέγνων λόγους τινας Σωκρατικούς, ἐκ δὲ Ξενοφῶντος οὐδέν.

(daivid. Try asking yourself why you used nominative λόγοι.)

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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:58 pm

εἰσελθών εἰς τὸν κῆπον ἔλεγον αἰλούρῳ «μὴ θηρεύσῃς τοὺς πετεινούς.» ἐλπίζω τὸν αἴλουρον κατανοεῖν τὴν ἑλληνικὴν γλώσσαν.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:20 pm

ἔμνησα πλείων λόγους ἐκ Ξενοφῶντος καὶ ἐκεῖνοι δὲ λόγοι, οὓς ἔμνησα ἔμπροσθεν, οὐ εστι ἀμνήμονες.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:32 pm

διατρίβω νυκτὸς ἠγέρθην καὶ διηγρύπνουν ὥστε ελεγον ἐκεινους τοὺς λογους  ἐκ Ξενοφῶντος οὑς οιδα.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:37 pm

τήμερον ἐμελέτων τὸ τοῦ λόγου «ἐκαίνου» χρᾶν λέγων φράσει σὺν τούτῳ τῷ λόγῳ.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:20 am

τήμερον ἀνεγίγνωσκον μύθους ὑπὸ Αἰσώπου γράψαντας.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:00 am

«μύζησον τουτον τον τάπητα, μύζησον εκαινον τὸν τάπητα» ἐκέλευον τῇ μυζούσῃ μηχανῇ.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:41 am

τήμερον ἀνεγίγνωσκον λόγους Ξενοφῶντος περὶ τοῦ τοῦ Κυροῦ πολεμοῦ. νῦν ἀνέγνωκα λόγους μείζονα ἤ ἥμισα βίβλον. μετὰ ἐκεῖνον τὸν βίβλον μόνον ἕξ ἔχει.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:06 am

τήμερον ἐπόνουν κατὰ τὴν τῶν Νορθ καὶ Ἱλλαρδ βίβλον.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:46 pm

ἔγραψα βραχὺ γράμματα ὅν καὶ ἀνέγραψα.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:34 am

ἐξελθών εἰς τὸν κῆπον ἐκέλευσα τὸ πετεινὸν τὸν αἴλουρον εὐλαβεῖσθαι.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:56 am

τήμερον ἐποιοῦν συν τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελος* βίβλῳ τῇ μελετήματος.

* G. S. Farnell
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:21 am

"τῇ μελετήματος"?
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:11 pm

seneca2008 wrote:"τῇ μελετήματος"?

"συν τῇ μελετήματος βίβλῳ" ?

EDIT
!τήμερον ἐποιοῦν συν τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελος* βίβλῳ τῇ μελετημάτων."?
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:18 pm

Daivid

I understand "συν τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελος* βίβλῳ" but I dont understand why you then write τῇ, or what exactly you mean by either "τῇ μελετήματος" or "τῇ μελετημάτων".

More generally if you are going to continue with this great aim of writing Greek you need to spend a bit more time thinking about how something might be expressed in Greek rather than than thinking of an English sentence and then turning it into Greek very literally. In English we do say I worked with x's book of exercises, but I am not sure thats how you would say it Greek. If you look up ποιέω you can find lots of examples but I couldn't see anything that parallels the way you want to use it. I am not however saying you cant use it in that way just it doesnt sound very idiomatic to me and there are lots of other verbs which might be better. Others with more experience of prose composition may have different ideas.

You could try using "study and read" which would give you an opportunity to use two verbs, one of which would be a participle in idiomatic Greek. Or "opened and read", "fell asleep while reading", This is much more like the kind of Greek I come across when I am reading.

Dont be discouraged by what I am saying.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:16 pm

seneca2008 wrote:Daivid

I understand "συν τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελος* βίβλῳ" but I dont understand why you then write τῇ, or what exactly you mean by either "τῇ μελετήματος" or "τῇ μελετημάτων".

More generally if you are going to continue with this great aim of writing Greek you need to spend a bit more time thinking about how something might be expressed in Greek rather than than thinking of an English sentence and then turning it into Greek very literally. In English we do say I worked with x's book of exercises, but I am not sure thats how you would say it Greek. If you look up ποιέω you can find lots of examples but I couldn't see anything that parallels the way you want to use it. I am not however saying you cant use it in that way just it doesnt sound very idiomatic to me and there are lots of other verbs which might be better. Others with more experience of prose composition may have different ideas.

You could try using "study and read" which would give you an opportunity to use two verbs, one of which would be a participle in idiomatic Greek. Or "opened and read", "fell asleep while reading", This is much more like the kind of Greek I come across when I am reading.

Dont be discouraged by what I am saying.

I really wasn't sure about ποιέω but I couldn't think of anything else. Now I know that's wrong I shall try other ways of saying it.

I got a bit of a mess with the genitives which is quite separate from that.
The following is a valid way of adding a genitive isn't it?
συν τῇ βίβλῳ τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελος
In this case it bothered me that I was slapping two genitives next to each other - would it be clear that both qualified the book and not one the other?
Now I come to think of it I cant remember seeing have never seen both attributive positions being used together in the way I did. Russel and Keller have a section that seems relevant to this so I shall read it up. Thanks for pointing out I have a problem here.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:57 pm

The following is a valid way of adding a genitive isn't it?
συν τῇ βίβλῳ τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελος


I think what you want is:
συν τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελος βίβλῳ

You seem a bit confused by attributive use of the adjective

a) ὁ ἀγαθὸς ἀνήρ
b) = ὁ ἀνήρ ὁ ἀγαθὸς

replacing the attributive adjective in a) by a phrase gives :

τῶν ᾿Αθηναίων πόλις (the rather inelegantly named genitive sandwich)

in the same way as b) you could rewrite this as ἡ πόλις τῶν ᾿Αθηναίων

The article has to agree with the noun it goes with. Just ask yourself in your example what does τῇ τοῦ mean?

All this is explained on page 4 of North and Hillard. Perhaps it might be a good idea to do the exercises there?
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:05 pm

ἤκουον Βεδουηρα* γιγνώσκοντα ἐκ τῆς Φιλποτος βίβλου. πότερον παρηκολούθουν.


*Bedwere:
https://archive.org/details/Esafx


seneca2008 wrote:All this is explained on page 4 of North and Hillard. Perhaps it might be a good idea to do the exercises there?

Νορθ μὲν οὐ ἦν δῆλος, σὺ δὲ ἦσθα δὴ.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:06 am

"ἐκ τῆς Φιλποτος βίβλου"

Look at the model ἡ τῶν ᾿Αθηναίων πόλις and see whats missing.

Did you mean to use γιγνώσκοντα, from γιγνώσκω? Wouldnt ἀναγιγνώσκω be a better verb?

πότερον?

I was going to suggest rewriting all this with a relative clause but maybe its best to stick to a paratactic construction.

Bd reads aloud stories from herodotus in Philpotts (in the book written (made) by P.) here (urL). I listened to some of them following keenly(or whatever adverb you want).

If you try to turn that into Greek you might run into fewer difficulties. I will think about it a bit more tomorrow.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:25 am

Βεδουηρ ἀνεγίγνωσκε μεγάλῃ φρονῇ τὴν περὶ τῆς τοῦ Κυροῦ ἀναβάσεως βίβλους τῆς γραφομένην ὑπὸ τοῦ Φιλποτος. ἤκουον προθυμῶς καὶ πλησίον παρηκολούθουν.
seneca2008 wrote:
daivid wrote:"ἐκ τῆς Φιλποτος βίβλου"

«ἔνθα δὴ πολὺς τάραχος ἐγένετο» :oops:
seneca2008 wrote:Look at the model ἡ τῶν ᾿Αθηναίων πόλις and see whats missing.

μάλιστά γε
seneca2008 wrote:Did you mean to use γιγνώσκοντα, from γιγνώσκω? Wouldnt ἀναγιγνώσκω be a better verb?

ἐστὶ δή
seneca2008 wrote:πότερον?

πλησίον :oops:

seneca2008 wrote:I was going to suggest rewriting all this with a relative clause but maybe its best to stick to a paratactic construction.

Bd reads aloud stories from herodotus in Philpotts (in the book written (made) by P.) here (urL). I listened to some of them following keenly(or whatever adverb you want).

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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:56 am

Βεδουηρ ἀνεγίγνωσκε μεγάλῃ φρονῇ τὴν περὶ τῆς τοῦ Κυροῦ ἀναβάσεως βίβλους τῆς γραφομένην ὑπὸ τοῦ Φιλποτος. ἤκουον προθυμῶς καὶ πλησίον παρηκολούθουν.


1. Βεδουηρ ἀνεγίγνωσκε μεγάλῃ φρονῇ

This in English sounds fine but it isnt quite right in Greek. Maybe this:
ὁ πάνσοφος Βεδουηρ ἀνεγίγνωσκε

Did you mean φρονῇ or did you have φωνῇ in mind? In this case you can omit μεγάλῃ φωνῇ if you were trying to over the idea of speaking aloud. But in any case Bd deserves an article.

2. τὴν περὶ τῆς τοῦ Κυροῦ ἀναβάσεως βίβλους τῆς γραφομένην...

What number and case is βίβλους?

What do you think τῆς γραφομένην means? Its not idiomatic even if were to agree

3. ἤκουον προθυμῶς καὶ πλησίον παρηκολούθουν. It would be better to express this in the aorist and to express one of the verbs as a participle. Whilst its reasonable for Bd to be reading in the imperfect as he may still be reading, we dont know, but you have finished listening and following so you should use the aorist.

I have seen that you use the imperfect a lot. Perhaps you should ask yourself each time whether the aorist might be better.

Rather than trying to get what you have written in correct grammatical form I think you need to recast it in a much simpler form. So maybe instead of explicitly mentioning the anabasis you could try "stories from Xenophon, the ones Philpotts selected." That would remove all those nested articles along with the possibility of getting them wrong.

More generally you should read Sidgwick 96-114 and especially note what he says about abstract and concrete. As sidgwick and everyone else says about prose composition you are not trying to put English words into Greek but you are trying to take the thought behind the English and express that in Greek.

I hope this is helpful.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:23 pm

τήμερον πάλιν ἤκουσα ἐκείνα τὴν βίβλον. ἔπειτα ἀνέγνων αὐτόν . ἔπειτα πάλιν ἤκουσα.
seneca2008 wrote:
1. Βεδουηρ ἀνεγίγνωσκε μεγάλῃ φρονῇ

This in English sounds fine but it isnt quite right in Greek. Maybe this:
ὁ πάνσοφος Βεδουηρ ἀνεγίγνωσκε

Did you mean φρονῇ or did you have φωνῇ in mind? In this case you can omit μεγάλῃ φωνῇ if you were trying to over the idea of speaking aloud. But in any case Bd deserves an article.

2. τὴν περὶ τῆς τοῦ Κυροῦ ἀναβάσεως βίβλους τῆς γραφομένην...

What number and case is βίβλους?

What do you think τῆς γραφομένην means? Its not idiomatic even if were to agree


εὐχαριστῶ σοί
seneca2008 wrote:3. ἤκουον προθυμῶς καὶ πλησίον παρηκολούθουν. It would be better to express this in the aorist and to express one of the verbs as a participle. Whilst its reasonable for Bd to be reading in the imperfect as he may still be reading, we dont know, but you have finished listening and following so you should use the aorist.

I have seen that you use the imperfect a lot. Perhaps you should ask yourself each time whether the aorist might be better.

ἀλλὰ οὐ ἤκουσα διὰ πάντων

seneca2008 wrote:Rather than trying to get what you have written in correct grammatical form I think you need to recast it in a much simpler form. So maybe instead of explicitly mentioning the anabasis you could try "stories from Xenophon, the ones Philpotts selected." That would remove all those nested articles along with the possibility of getting them wrong.

More generally you should read Sidgwick 96-114 and especially note what he says about abstract and concrete. As sidgwick and everyone else says about prose composition you are not trying to put English words into Greek but you are trying to take the thought behind the English and express that in Greek.

I hope this is helpful.


ἀλλὰ σπανίζω εἰδώλου. τινὰ ὁμοιοῦμαι;
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:59 pm

The aorist gives no information about "completion, continuance, repetition,etc". So your stated reason for not using the aorist does not apply.

ἀλλὰ σπανίζω εἰδώλου. τινὰ ὁμοιοῦμαι;


What happened to the article?

If I understand it, which is doubtful, I am not sure how your reply can elicit a helpful reply from me. it really is best to ask questions in English.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:25 pm

seneca2008 wrote:The aorist gives no information about "completion, continuance, repetition,etc". So your stated reason for not using the aorist does not apply.


You understood me quite correctly there because that encapsulates my understanding of the imperfect - aorist split. Or to quote John Taylor Greek to GCSE part 1 page 41:
The imperfect (literally unfinished) strictly refers to an action that is not completed.

I am not surprised that my understanding of the aorist is wrong but what is the correct understanding of the aorist?
seneca2008 wrote:
ἀλλὰ σπανίζω εἰδώλου. τινὰ ὁμοιοῦμαι;


What happened to the article?

If I understand it, which is doubtful, I am not sure how your reply can elicit a helpful reply from me. it really is best to ask questions in English.

What I wanted to say was:
I lack a model. What should I imitate?

You seem to think that my problem is that I know what I should write but my English keeps interfering and drags me off course.
At the moment I have just got to the start of chapter eight of Xenophon's Anabasis. I have merely read odd snippets of other writers. Which wouldn't be so bad if I was really on top of that somewhat limited material but when I re-read (which I do constantly) I find myself decoding as if it was text that I had never before encountered. There are good reasons for sticking to one writer until that writers ways are mastered before expanding outwards but I can't find anywhere in Xenophon where he describes someone reading aloud.

The problem is you are telling me what I should not be doing but what I need is to know is what I should be doing.

I feel you vastly overestimate my ability (but you are not alone in this).

EDIT
I should stress that I do appreciate the time you have taken to try and nudge me in the right direction.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:13 am

καταμαθών τὴν τῶν Κελερων καί Ρυσελων βίβλον ἐμελέτων τούτοις.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:29 am

Imperfect/aorist

Imperfect an action in the past which is continuous or repeated or incomplete ... I was doing. Also it can mean I tried to do something. Aorist is where all we know is that single action happened in the past .. I did this.

Because you have not listened to the whole book (πάντων) does not mean your "act of listening" is incomplete. It is "the act of listening" that you were engaged in that counts, and as this has ended you can use the aorist. I suggested the aorist as a means of introducing variety and a contrast between Bd's activity which was continuous in the past and your's which can be viewed as a one off that has now ended. So in English you could write Bd was doing x (imperfect), I did y (aorist). The imperfect/aorist split is about how you regard an action. If you want everything to appear as continuous actions in the past then use the imperfect but thats not how most Greek is written. It is not incorrect to put all this into the imperfect as you have but there is another way of looking at the action. A different aspect.

What I wanted to say was:
I lack a model. What should I imitate?


Try using:
τό παράδειγμα (like paradigm) I think mainly used in plural as exempla.
μιμέομαι to imitate (mimesis)

The problem is you are telling me what I should not be doing but what I need is to know is what I should be doing.


Fair enough. If you are reading Xenophon use him as your model. So try to paraphrase what you read or put it in the future or put it in indirect speech. Use his vocabulary. I appreciate you dont go marching with armies or hunting( its possible I suppose) but in your invented world of what I did today you can write anything you want. Today I went marching with Cyrus we went over the plain....etc

Otherwise you are setting yourself a huge task in free form prose composition. After a lot of work you could maybe make yourself understood but whether it would be Greek is another matter. Much better at your stage to stick to something very simple using vocabulary and structures from your reading that you can handle.

Another positive thing you could do is to work through North and Hillard.

Good luck!
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:01 am

τήμερον ἀνέγνων μελετήματα ἐν τῇ τοῦ Φαρνελ βίβλῳ καὶ ἔκλεξον δὲ αὐτούς.


seneca2008 wrote:
Fair enough. If you are reading Xenophon use him as your model. So try to paraphrase what you read or put it in the future or put it in indirect speech. Use his vocabulary. I appreciate you dont go marching with armies or hunting( its possible I suppose) but in your invented world of what I did today you can write anything you want. Today I went marching with Cyrus we went over the plain....etc

Otherwise you are setting yourself a huge task in free form prose composition. After a lot of work you could maybe make yourself understood but whether it would be Greek is another matter. Much better at your stage to stick to something very simple using vocabulary and structures from your reading that you can handle.

Another positive thing you could do is to work through North and Hillard.

Good luck!


εὑχαριστῶ σοί
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:30 am

μελετήματα


article?
Is this the best word?

Although LSJ has "2. μελετήματα φωνῆς grammatical examples, A.D.Synt.277.26. "

ἡ μελέτη seems more Attic.

"II. practice, exercise c. freq. of orators, rehearsal, declamation, “ταύτης τῆς μελέτης καὶ τῆς ἐπιμελείας” D.18.309, al.; of actors, νήστεις ὄντες τὰς μ. ποιούμενοι making their rehearsals, Arist.Pr.901b3."

καὶ ἔκλεξον δὲ αὐτούς


ἐκλέγω, ἐκλεξω, ἐξέλεξα etc

Not sure what you are trying to say here. ἔκλεξον seems to be a future participle.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:40 pm

τήμερον ἄσχολος ἔσομαι. ἔξειμι μέντοι φέρων τοὺς τοῦ Ξενοφῶντος λόγους καὶ βαδίζων μνήσω αὐτούς.


seneca2008 wrote:
μελετήματα


article?
Is this the best word?

Although LSJ has "2. μελετήματα φωνῆς grammatical examples, A.D.Synt.277.26. "

ἡ μελέτη seems more Attic.

"II. practice, exercise c. freq. of orators, rehearsal, declamation, “ταύτης τῆς μελέτης καὶ τῆς ἐπιμελείας” D.18.309, al.; of actors, νήστεις ὄντες τὰς μ. ποιούμενοι making their rehearsals, Arist.Pr.901b3."
seneca2008 wrote:ἐυχαριστῶ σοί

καὶ ἔκλεξον δὲ αὐτούς


ἐκλέγω, ἐκλεξω, ἐξέλεξα etc

Not sure what you are trying to say here. ἔκλεξον seems to be a future participle.

ἔλεξα :oops:
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:52 pm

φέρων βαδίζων tense?
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:31 pm

seneca2008 wrote:φέρων βαδίζων tense?

Both present participles. You have warned me to avoid over using the imperfect and of course the present is imperfective just as much as the imperfect itself. However, it still looks to me that the aorist can't be justified here. When I went out the house I was carrying the section of Xenophon I wanted to memorize but I kept on carrying it after I had exited the house. It is true that when walking I did reach my destination but as far as my study of Greek was concerned that's irrelevant. All that matters from the Greek-study point of view is that there was a fairly long open ended period when I was walking during which I made use of my time memorizing Xenophon bit by bit.
Or did you mean something else?
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby seneca2008 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:15 am

ἔξειμι is the future of ἐξέρχομαι in Attic. So you have a future main verb with two present participles and μνήσω which is future. ἔσομαι is also future. So dont you think that the participles ought to future too?

Edit :I may have been too hasty as Goodwin says (1288) "the tenses of the participle generally express the same time as those of the indicative; but they are present, past or future relatively to the time of the verb with which they are connected."

So perhaps present is correct. I will think about it tomorrow.
Last edited by seneca2008 on Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:22 am

seneca2008 wrote:ἔξειμι is the future of ἐξέρχομαι in Attic. So you have a future main verb with two present participles and μνήσω which is future. ἔσομαι is also future. So dont you think that the participles ought to future too?


Oh I see. I don't really know much about future particles - clearly this is a gap that needs filling. I shall do so.
Thanks not just for the correction of that post but opening my eyes to that gap.
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Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Postby mwh » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:53 am

Note seneca's edit. Present participles here are quite correct. "I'll go out carrying," and "I'll memorize them while walking" (not "while being about to walk").

Βυτ μνήσω should be μνημονεύσω.
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