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Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

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Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Franmorar » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:59 pm

LATINAE GRAECAEQUE COLLOQUENDI FOMULAE
ΡΩΜΑΙΚΑΙ ΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΑΙ ΤΗΣ ΟΜΙΛΙΑΣ ΡΗΤΡΑΙ

TABULA PRIMA. ΠΙΝΑΞ Ο ΠΡΩΤΟΣ.

Saying hello. Ad salutandum. Πρὸς τὸ ἀσπάζεσθαι.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, nice to meet you, hello... Salve. Ave. Salvus sis. / Salvete. Avete. Salvi sitis. Χαῖρε. / Χαίρετε. Σοὶ (ὑμῖν) χαίρειν καὶ εὖ πράττειν (εἴη).

Good morning, afternoon, evening, hello… (answering the first hello!). Salve (et tu). Ave (et tu). / Salvete (et vos). Avete (et vos). Et tu./Et vos. Χαῖρε (καὶ σύ). / Χαίρετε (καὶ ὑμεῖς).

Hello, my dear friend. O salve, exoptate (optime) amice. Χαῖρε, ἐπιθυμηθεὶς (ἀγαθὲ) φίλε.

I’m so glad to see you in good health. Venire te salvum volup est. Salvum te advenire gaudeo. Σὲ ὑγιαίνειν ὑπερήδομαι. Σὲ εὐεκτεῖν χαίρω.

To say hello to somebody. Aliquem salutare. Salutem aliqui dicere (dare, ferre). Ἀσπάζεσθαί τινα. Προσαγορεύειν τινά.

To greet one another. Consalutare (inter se). Ἀσπάζεσθαι ἀλλήλους.

Greetings! Multam tibi salutem impertio. Προσαγορεύω σοι χαίρειν.

My friend has come to greet me. Amicus venit ad me salutatum. Ὁ φίλος πρὸς ἐμὲ ἀφίκετο ἀσπασόμενος.

Give my regards to my friend. Amico meis verbis salutem adscribe (imperti). Salvere amicum jube meo nomine. Τὸν φίλον παρὰ μοῦ ἄσπασαι. Χαίρειν τὸν φίλον παρὰ μοῦ κέλευσον.

Francis send you his best wishes. Salvere te jubet Franciscus. Salvebis a Francisco. Franciscus impertit tibi multum salutis. Σὲ ἀσπάζομαι παρὰ Φραγκίσκου. Παρὰ Φραγκίσκου σε χαίρειν κελεύω.

He gave me your regards. A te mihi salutem dixit. Παρὰ σοῦ με ἠσπάσατο.

Good bye, see you soon, have a nice day, good night. Vale. Multum (bene) vale./
Valete. Multum (bene) valete. Ἔῤῥωσο. Ὑγίαινε. / Ἔῤῥωσθε. Ὑγιαίνετε.
Last edited by Franmorar on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby bedwere » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:53 pm

Franmorar wrote:Goor moning, afternoon, evening, hello… (answering the first hello!). Salve (et tu). Ave (et tu). / Salvete (et vos). Avete (et vos). Et tu./Et vos. Χαῖρε (καὶ σύ). / Χαίρετε (καὶ ὑμεῖς).


Salve, Francisce. Scribe, quaeso:

Χαῖρε, ὦ Φρανκίσκε. Γράψον, παρακαλῶ·

Good morning

:D
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Franmorar » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:15 pm

Ave, Bedverie amice.
Multas tibi habeo gratias, quod bene me monuisti. Mendum a me correctum. Vale atque vale.

Χαῖρε καὶ σύ, ὦ ἀγαθὲ Βεδουέριε.
Χάριν σοι οἶδα πολλήν, ὅτι διήγγειλας. Τὸ τῆς γραφῆς πταῖσμα διώρθωκα. Ἔρρωσο.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Σαῦλος » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:01 am

Franmorar,

Could you give us a little introduction to these Colloquendi Formulae.

I searched through past posts and see that there are many threads that list Latin or Latin and Greek phrases. But I can't find any initial description of this effort, or of the source of the phrases. Could you explain?

Σαυλος
I will babble until I talk. ετι λαλαγω...
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Franmorar » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:08 pm

Saule amice, si formularum fontem quaeris, tantum hoc sequere interretiale vinclum. Vale.
Ὦ Σαῦλε ἐπιθυμηθείς, εἰ τὴν πηγὴν τῶν ῥητρῶν ζητεῖς, μόνον ἕπου τούτῷ τῷ διαδικτυϊκῷ δέσμῳ
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60329
Ἔρρωσο.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Σαῦλος » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:45 pm

Franmorar wrote:Ὦ Σαῦλε ἐπιθυμηθείς, εἰ τὴν πηγὴν τῶν ῥητρῶν ζητεῖς, μόνον ἕπου τούτῷ τῷ διαδικτυϊκῷ δέσμῳ
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60329


ἐκεῖνῳ τῷ διαδικτυικῷ ἡψαμην. ἀλλά οὐ κατέλαβον πάντα. οὐ δύναμαι ἀναγνῶναι Ρωμα-ιστί.
Ἔρρωσο
I will babble until I talk. ετι λαλαγω...
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Franmorar » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:22 am

Ὦ ἀγαθὲ Σαῦλε, χαῖρε καὶ ἐνταῦθα ἀνάγνωθι τὸν ἐμὸν πρόλογον ἑλληνιστί. Ἔρρωσο.

ΠΕΡΙ ΠΟΙΚΙΛΩΝ ΡΩΜΑΙΚΩΝ ΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΩΝ
ΤΗΣ ΟΜΙΛΙΑΣ ΡΗΤΡΩΝ ΕΝΧΕΙΡΙΔΙΟΝ
ΕΙΣ ΤΗΝ ΑΓΓΛΙΚΗΝ ΓΛΩΤΤΑΝ ΜΕΘΕΡΜΗΝΕΥΘΕΙΣΩΝ

Ἐξ ἄλλου ἐγχειριδίου ἱερέως τινὸς ἰησουΐτου συγγραφέως
«Περὶ τοῦ ῥωμαϊστὶ λέγειν» ἐκλεχθέν
καὶ ἐκ βελτίστων τινῶν τῶν ἑλληνικῶν λεξικῶν,
κατὰ τὰ ἐν τῷ ἔργῳ "Guía de la conversación española, latina y griega" προτεθεισμένα,
ἄλλων διδασκάλων συγγραφέων.
Παρὰ τῷ Χ. Βουρετίῳ καὶ ἐν τῇ Λευκετίᾳ ἢ Παρίσει ἔκδοτον καὶ ἐν Μεξικῷ τῇ πόλει.

ΠΡΟΛΟΓΟΣ

Πλείω μὲν δέκα ἐτῶν ἐστιv ἐξ' οὗ παρὰ βελτίστου φίλου μου βιβλίον τι ἐδεξάμην κατὰ δωρεάν, ἐν ᾧ ποικίλαι τῆς ὁμιλίας ῥῆτραι ἦσαν καὶ συγγεγραμμένα λεξικά τε καὶ πίναξι κατεσκευασμένα. Θαυμαστὸν δέ, ἔφην, οὐ μόνον ὅτι τὸ βιβλίον ἦν ἑκατονταέτες, ἀλλὰ καὶ διότι ἐν τρισὶ γλώτταις, τῇ ἱσπανικῇ καὶ τῇ ῥωμαϊκῇ τε καὶ τῇ ἑλληνικῇ ἐστιν ἐκδεδομένον.
Καίπερ πολλῆς ὄντος τῆς τοῦ βιβλίου παλαιότητος, ἔτι μήν ἀναγνωσθῆναι τοῦτο δύναται ἀχαλεπῶς, ἦν δ' ἐπισκευαστέον.
Τὸ ἐπισκευαστὸν ἤδη βιβλίον ἑκούσιος πολλάκις ἀνέγνων καὶ κατανέγνων, καὶ τότε ἐνενόησα ὅτι ἐκ τούτου τοῦ ἔργου μικρὰν γραμματικὴν εἰς τὸ διαλέγεσθαι δύναμαι συγγράφειν, ἵνα ἄλλοι τὴν ῥωμαϊκήν τε καὶ τὴν ἑλληνικὴν γλῶτταν φιλοῦντες ταύτης μετέχωσι τῆς μαθήσεως.
Ὁ χρόνος ὅμως παρήρχετο, καὶ ἔγωγε κατεῖδον ὅτι ἔργον μεῖζον ἢ τὸ κατ' ἐμὲ ἐπεχείρησα.
Ἔδοξ' οὖν μοι ἔργον ἁπλούστερον ποιῆσαι, τουτέστι τὰς τῆς ὁμιλίας ῥήτρας ἀπογράφειν καὶ μεταγράφειν, διότι χρῆ οὐκ ὀλίγας με διορθῶσαι.
Ἐνίας δὲ μεταβολὰς ἐποίησα καὶ ῥήτρας προσέθηκα καὶ ἰδού, ὦ φίλτατοι ἀναγνῶσται, ὅδε ἐστὶν ὁ τῆς σπουδῆς μου ὁ καρπός.
Εἰ γὰρ κεχαρισμέναι εἶεν ὑμῖν καὶ χρησταὶ αὗται αἱ μεταγεγραμμέναι διωρθωμέναι τε καὶ προστεθειμέναι τῆς ὁμιλίας ῥῆτραι, καὶ τούτοις ὠφελοῖεν οἳ ἐπὶ ταῖς καλλίσταις γλώτταις διατρίβουσι τῇ ῥωμαϊκῇ τε καὶ τῇ ἑλληνικῇ.

Φραγκίσκος Μοράλης Ἀρδαίας, ἐν Χριστοφοροπόλει τῆς Βενεζουέλης, τῷ δισχιλιοστῷ καὶ τρίτῳ καὶ δεκάτῳ ἔτει.
Last edited by Franmorar on Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:59 pm, edited 15 times in total.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Markos » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:03 am

Franmorar wrote:Πλείω μὲν δέκα ἐτῶν ἐστι ἐξ οὗ ἐκ βελτίστου φίλου μου βιβλίον τι ἐδεξάμην κατὰ δωρεάν, ἐν ᾧ ποικίλαι τῆς ὁμιλίας ῥῆτραι ἦσαν καὶ συγγεγραμμένα λεξικὰ τε καὶ πίναξι κατασκευασμένα.


νῦν δεῖ οὖν, ὦ φίλε Φραγκίσκε, οὐ μόνον σε εὐχαριστεῖν τούτῳ τῷ φίλῳ, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἡμᾶς! ἡμεῖς γὰρ ὄντες ἀναγνῶσται τοῦ καλοῦ ἔργου σου, προκόπτομεν δὴ διὰ σέ τε καὶ τὸν σὸν φίλον ἐν ταύταις ταῖς καλλιστάταις γλώσσαις τῇ ῥωμαϊκῇ τε καὶ ἑλληνικῇ.

ὑγίαινε δή, φίλτατε!
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby bedwere » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:56 pm

Gratias ago tibi, o Francisce, propter pulchrum opus tuum. Oportet enim nos et Latinam et Graecam discere.
Quot tabulae sunt in libro?

Vale!

Χάριν οἶδά σοι, ὦ Φρανκίσκε, ἕνεκα τοῦ καλοῦ ἔργου σου. Δεῖ γὰρ ἡμᾶς καὶ τὴν Ῥωμαϊκὴν καὶ τὴν Ἑλληνικὴν μανθάνειν. Πόσοι πίνακές εἰσιν ἐν τῷ βιβλίῳ;

Ἔρρωσο.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Franmorar » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:51 am

Franmorarius Marco et Bedverio salutem plurimam dicit.
Optime Marce et exoptate Bedverie, equidem vobis invicem ago magnopere gratias, quod benevolenter de opusculo meo dixistis.
Bedverie amice, quaeris quot sint tabulae in libro. Plures quam viginti, respondeo.
Multum valete, interretiales amici.

Μᾶρκε βέλτιστε καὶ Βεδουέριε ἐπιθυμηθείς, ἔγωγε ὑμῖν αὖ πολλὴν χάριν ἔχω, ὅτι περὶ τοῦ μικροῦ ἔργου μου ἐλέξατ' εὐμενῶς.
Ὦ φίλε Βεδουέριε, ἐρωτᾷς πόσοι εἰσὶν πίνακες ἐν τῷ βιβλίῳ. Πλείους ἢ εἴκοσιν, ἀποκρίνομαι.
Ὑγιαίνετε, ὦ διαδικτυϊκοὶ φίλοι.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby mwh » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:31 am

Veniam peto si pigrior sum quam posthac in lingua latina scribam.
συγγνωμην μοι αιτουμαι ραθυμοτερον εχοντι η ωστε το λοιπον γραφειν τηι ελληνικηι χρωμενωι γλωσσηι.

Franmorar wrote:I’m so glad to see you in good health. Venire te salvum volup est. Salvum te advenire gaudeo. Σὲ ὑγιαίνεν ὑπερήδομαι. Σὲ εὐεκτεῖν χαίρω.

ὑγιαίνεν typo (-nein). Are the greek phrases really idiomatic? I'd have expected something more like ορων σε υγιαινοντα (υπερ)ηδομαι, and ορων/ευρων σε ευεκτουντα χαιρω.

Greetings! Multam tibi salutem impertio. Προσαγορεύω σοι χαίρειν.

Should σοι be σε?

My friend has come to greet me. ... Ὁ φίλος πρὸς ἐμὲ ἀφίκετο ἀσπασόμενος.

Better ο φιλος αφικται ασπασομενος με?

εκ του προλογου:
ἐπὶ ταῖς καλλιστάταις γλώτταις

καλλισταις

Valeas ω φιλε et φιλοπόνει
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Franmorar » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:10 am

Franmorarius optimo Mwh salutem plurimam dicit.
Mwh amice, illae graece sententiae, si verus est liber ex quo eas excerpsi, in bona graecitate sunt omnes scriptae.
Quod attinet ad verbum καλλισταταις, recte vel rectissime dicis, o amice, quod turpissimum feci mendum. καλλίσταις, ut bene notavisti et correxisti, scribendum est.
Si quid habes aliud porro notandum et corrigendum, rogo te ut certiores nos facias.
Cura ut valeas, interretialis amice.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby bedwere » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:07 pm

Ego quoque emendavi editiones et chartaceam et electronicas.

Valete!

Καὶ ἐγὼ διώρθωσα τὰς ἐκδόσεις τὴν παπυρικήν τε καὶ τὰς ἠλεκτρονικάς.

Ἔρρωσθε.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Vladimir » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:25 am

Σοὶ (ὑμῖν) χαίρειν καὶ εὖ πράττειν (εἴη) - is it a purely epistolary formula or it is possible to use this expression in oral speech? Or can I say εὖ πράττε to somrone meaning good-bye? Normally, Greeks used it at the end of their letters.

Another question I would like to ask is about καλὴ ἡμέρα as a form of greetings. It is used by Christophe Rico, the author of the Polis textbook. But I haven't found that expression in the TLG. Was it really used by ancient Greeks? Does anybody know?
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Franmorar » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:52 pm

Franmorarius Vladimiro salutem dicit multam.
Amice, illa salutandi prima formula, bene ut ipse ais, in epistolari colloquio imprimis est usitata.
De altera, καλὴ ἡμέρα scripta, hoc possum dicere: ex hodierna graecitate ista formula est ad antiquam aptata. Prisci enim Graeci ad salutandum in colloquio χαῖρε, χαίρετε fere tantum dicebant.
Bene vale, Vladimire amice.
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Re: Colloquendi formulae: Tabula prima

Postby Vladimir » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:37 pm

Εὐχαριστῶ σοι, ὦ ἀγαθέ Φρανμοράριε!
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