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What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:05 am

τημερον ην εὐδία. ουδμια νεφελη ειδον και ἡ ἥλιος ελαμπε. ὁ ανεμος ην ἀσθενενεστερος - τρεις κατα την κλιμακα βωφορτου.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:41 am

bedwere wrote:
Ὁ μὲν ἥλιος λαμπει ἐν τῇ Διδακούπολει ὡς εἴωθε...


ὦ χαῖρε φίλε!

τὴν ἀλήθειαν λέγεις. πολλάκις γὰρ λάμπει ὁ ἥλιος ἐν τῇ Διδακούπολει. μακάριος οὖν εἶ σύ.


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ἡ Διδακούπολις ἐστιν πόλις ἐν Καλιφορνίᾳ.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:44 am

bedwere wrote:Ὁ μὲν ἥλιος λαμπει ἐν τῇ Διδακούπολει ὡς εἴωθε, ὁ δὲ ἄνεμος πνεῖ σήμερον.

Markos wrote:οὐκ οἶδα πότερον βρέξει ἢ οὔ.


χάριν ἔχω ὑμῖν, ὦ Μᾶρκε και ὦ Βεδεωερ. οὐκ ἤδειν ὅπου ἐστιν ἐκεῖνη πόλις ἡ Διδακουπολις.
καὶ οὐκ ἤδειν τὸν λόγον “πὸτερον.” νύν δε οἶδα. ἀναγινώσκοντες ὑμεῖς γρώσονται ὅτι οἷδα νὺν.

λόγος ἐστιν ὡς λέξις. λέξις ἐστιν ὡς λόγος.
τὸ πότερον ἐστιν λόγος. τὸ πότερον ἐστιν λέξις.
τὸ νεφέλη ἐστιν λόγος. τὸ νεφέλη ἐστιν λέξις.
τί ἐστιν τὸ νεφέλη; ἡμεῖς οἶδαμεν ὅ τι ἐστιν τὸ νεφέλη.
ἡ νεφέλη ἐστιν ὕδωρ. ἡ νεφέλη ἐστιν τὸ ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ ὕδωρ. ἡ νεφέλη ἐστιν λευκή.
ἡμεῖς οἶδαμεν ὅ τι σημαίνει τὸ νεφέλη.

ἀλλά τί σημαίνει το πότερον; ἐγώ μεν δείκνυμι νυνί. δείκνυμι ὑμῖν ὅ τι σημαίνει τὸ πότερον.
πρώτον δε τὸ πότερον ἐστιν ὡς (ἐν βριταννική) ἐπί μίαν χειρός ἤ ἐπί ἄλλης χειρός.
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οὖν νομίζω περί τῶν χρήματα. δεῖ με λαβεῖν τούτο χρῆμα ἤ ἐκείνο χρῆμα; οὐκ οἶδα. διότι χρῶμαι τούτῳ τῷ λόγῳ τὸ πότερον.

οὐ δῆλον ἐστιν; μένετε. προσέχετε. δείκνυμι ὑμῖν νυν.

τάχα ἐγὼ ἔχω δύο χρήματα. ἔχω τὴν ἀσπίδα (τῆς βροχῆς) καὶ ἔχω τὸ δερματίνον ἱμάτιον. καὶ οὐκ οἶδα εἰ ἐπαύριον βρέξει ἤ ἔσται ψυχρός (ἐαν βρέξῃ;;;). δεῖ μὲ λαβεῖν ἔν μόνον χρῆμα. δεῖ μὲ λαβεῖν τὴν ἀσπίδα; δεῖ μὲ λαβεῖν το ἱμάτιον; οὐκ οἶδα. οὐκ οἶδα δεῖ με λαβεῖν πότερον τὴν ἀσπίδα ἤ τὸ ἱμάτιον.

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δῆλον ἐστιν νυν ὅ τι σημαίνει τὸ πότερον;
I will babble until I talk. ετι λαλαγω...
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:43 pm

τήμερον μέντοι ποτὲ μὲν φλέγει ὁ ἥλιος, ποτὲ δὲ πολλαὶ νεφέλαι (λέγω δὴ τὸ ἐν οὐρανῷ ὕδωρ) φαίνονται. πότερον οὖν δεῖ με φορεῖν τὸν πίλον τὸν παρέχοντα σκιὰν κατὰ τοῦ ἡλίου ἢ οὐ, ἀγνοῶ ἔγωγε.


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ἔχει πίλον ὁ παῖς.

Σαῦλος--
ἀλλά τί σημαίνει το πότερον; ἐγώ μεν δείκνυμι νυνί...


Paul, this is an outstanding lesson and a great example of how to teach Ancient Greek in Greek. If we ever produce a new monolingual dictionary I see entries such as this being very effective. There is always the question of whether this would work with beginners, but I really think that those of us who are intermediate learners need to start teaching and reinforcing each other's Greek in Greek. I see this thread as having potential for such activity.

χάριν σοι ἔχω!
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:51 pm

διόρθωσεις·
οὐν νομίζω περί τῶν χρήματα. δεῖ με λαβεῖν τούτο χρῆμα ἤ ἐκείνο χρῆμα;
οὐν νομίζω περί τῶν χρημάτων. δεῖ με λαβεῖν τούτο τό χρῆμα ἤ ἐκείνο τὸ χρῆμα;

Mark, I agree. Learning Greek by explaining something in Greek (especially in person) is a fantastic way to learn. I really like this thread because it is a repetitive topic. I thought that would be kind of dull, but in fact it's the opposite for me. I need to hear λαμπει about ten times before I can even start to think λαμπει. I love the incidental pattern we've fallen into of posting photos to make things more clear. I'd like to add (once in awhile, at least) this pattern of trying to explain a word in Greek.
By the way, I've been looking at that huge Greek to Greek minuscule dictionary by Camertis you put me on to. TOUGH reading the ligatures. I printed one page on a an A3 piece of paper (double the size of 8.5x11) and the writing comes out (if it were computer print) at about 7 point font. That must have been an absolutely HUGE book. 700+ pages? At some size bigger than an A3? Boggles the mind. The book intrigues me, but in the end, I don't think it will be useful. Even the simple Rouse dictionary is often unhelpful for me, the few times I've looked at it. I'm doubtful as to how useful any dictionary defining Greek with Greek would be. I think this sort of thing needs to be done within the context of a learner's progression. A learner knows so much, you use that to explain more, then you have a bigger selection of forms and vocs to explain even more, etc.
Thanks once again for your πνε̍ύμα τοῦ βαρναβᾶ.
I will babble until I talk. ετι λαλαγω...
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:20 am

τημερον το της θερμασίας βαθος ην εικοσι και δυο. καιπερ θερμου οντος, ου ἐξέδυσα το ιματιον. το ανεμος ἔπνει και το ιματιον ἀμύνει τον ανεμον εκ της ἐμής αυχης.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby bedwere » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:46 am

Χαίρετε, ὦ φίλοι. Σήμερον δὲ οὐ ἐδυνάμην ὡρᾶν τὸν ἥλιον, ὡς ὀπίσω τῶν νεφελῶν ὄντα. Ἐν γὰρ τούτῳ τῷ καίρῳ τὸ θαλάσσαιον κείμενον γίγνεται, τοῦ ὠκεανοῦ τὰς νεφέλας πέμποντος ὑπὲρ τὴν Διδακούπολιν.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:47 am

bedwere: ...τὸ θαλάσσαιον κείμενον γίγνεται...


λέγεις δὴ τοῦτο?

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ἡ τῆς θαλάσσης ὀμίχλη.

daivid: ...και το ιματιον ἀμύνει τον ανεμον εκ της ἐμής αυχης.


θέλεις λέγειν τὸ "ἐκ τοῦ ἐμοῦ αὐχένος?"


ὁ αὐχὴν, ένος
Image

ἡ αὔχη, ης
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I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:45 pm

ἀναγινώσκων λόγους τῶν Δαιυιδ και Βεδυερε, ἑχάρην.
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ὁ Δαιυιδ οὐκ ἐξέδυσεν τὸ ἱμάτιον αὐτοῦ. διὰ τί; ἄνεμος ἦν ἰσχυρός. τὸ ἱμάτιον ἠμνυνεν αὐτῷ τὸν ἀνεμον.
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ἡ ἀσπίς μου ποτε ἀμνύει μοι τήν βροχήν.
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αἱ ἀσπίδες τῶν στρατιώτων ἀμνύουσιν τοῖς στρατιώταις τὰ τοξεύματα.
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εὐ. οἶδα νύν. τι (ἤ τις) ἀμνύει τινι τινα. ὀρθόν εσιν;

[[καύχη καύχημα καυχάσθαι (καυχάομαι) ]] [[αὔχη αύχημα αυχεῖν (αὐχέω) ]]· ἀδελφοι εισιν, ναι;
εἰ δείκνυμι τόν αὐχένα. ποιῶ τὸ αὔχημα. αὐχῶ. ἐστιν ἡ αὔχη.
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bedwere wrote:τὸ θαλάσσαιον κείμενον γίγνεται

ἡ "θάλασσα κειμένη γίγνεται" ??

Image

κείμενος ἐγένετο ὁ ανήρ.

εἰ ποιῶ τὸ αύχημα, ἐγὼ καὶ καυχῶμαι.. ποιῶ τὸ καύχημα.
τάχα ἐνόμιζον Ἕλληνες οὕτως· “αὐχεῖ κακῶς τινι” ἐγένετο “καυχῆται τινι..”
I will babble until I talk. ετι λαλαγω...
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby bedwere » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:07 pm

Χαίρετε, ὦ φίλοι. Καὶ σήμερον τὸ θαλάσσαιον κείμενόν ἐστιν ὑπὲρ τῇ Διδακουπόλει. Αἱ δὴ νεφέλαι ὑψηλότεραί εἰσιν ἢ αἱ ἐν τῇ ἀπὸ τοῦ Μάρκου εἰκόνι.
Ἔρρωσθε.

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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:22 pm

σήμερον μὲν οὖν συννέφει γε. βρέξειν δὲ φασιν οἱ σοφοί.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:33 am

Markos wrote:
daivid: ...και το ιματιον ἀμύνει τον ανεμον εκ της ἐμής αυχης.


θέλεις λέγειν τὸ "ἐκ τοῦ ἐμοῦ αὐχένος?"


Σαῦλος wrote:

ὁ Δαιυιδ οὐκ ἐξέδυσεν τὸ ἱμάτιον αὐτοῦ. διὰ τί; ἄνεμος ἦν ἰσχυρός. τὸ ἱμάτιον ἠμνυνεν αὐτῷ τὸν ἀνεμον.


[[καύχη καύχημα καυχάσθαι (καυχάομαι) ]] [[αὔχη αύχημα αυχεῖν (αὐχέω) ]]· ἀδελφοι εισιν, ναι;
εἰ δείκνυμι τόν αὐχένα. ποιῶ τὸ αὔχημα. αὐχῶ. ἐστιν ἡ αὔχη.


ὧ Μαρκε και Σαυλε, ευχαριστω ὑμιν. προσκοπτικον εστι δέχεσθαι τοιαυτας επανορθωσεις.

ἤθελον λέγειν
«τὸ ἱμάτιον ἥμυνε τόν ανεμον τῷ εμω αὑχένι.»
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:27 am

τήμερον νεφελαι ἐκάλυπτε τον ουρανον αλλα επι τέλει ἡ ἥλιος ἔλαμψε.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:41 pm

σήμερον μέντοι τὸ ἐν τῇ ἐμῇ γῇ βάθος τῆς τοῦ ἀέρος ὑγρασίας τεσσαράκοντα καὶ ἐννέα κατὰ ἔκατόν ἐστιν.

Image
τοῦτο τὸν ὅπλον αὐξανει δὴ τὸ βάθος τῆς ὑγρασίας τοῦ ἀέρος.

daivid: ἤθελον λέγειν
«τὸ ἱμάτιον ἥμυνε τόν ανεμον τῷ εμω αὑχένι.»


ναί, ὡς μάλιστα, ἄριστε, πάνυ γε ὀρθῶς ἔγραψας δή. τὸ γὰρ "ἀμύνω" τῇ δοτικῇ χρῶταί γε. λέγομεν "ἀμύνω τι τινι."
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:57 pm

τήμερον ὁ ἄνμος επνουν ἰσχυρώς και οἱ μικροι κλάδοι εκινουν - τεσσερες κατα την κλιμακα του βωφορτου.
τὸ της τοῦ αερος γρασίας βαθος ησαν πεντηκοντα και τεσσερες κατα ἕκατόν.
αλλα ἡ ἥλιος ελαμπε.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby bedwere » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:38 pm

Τοῦ ἡλίου λάμποντος, οἴκοθεν ἐξέρχομαι βαδίζειν.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:57 pm

Markos wrote:Image
τοῦτο τὸν ὅπλον αὐξανει δὴ τὸ βάθος τῆς ὑγρασίας τοῦ ἀέρος.


διότιι ασθενής εἶ, ὧ φίλε;

bedwere wrote:Τοῦ ἡλίου λάμποντος, οἴκοθεν ἐξέρχομαι βαδίζειν.

ἐποίησας καλῶς. δεῖ και με βαδίζειν.
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ἐγενομην ἀσθενής εν ταις ημέραις ὅτι οὐ βαδίζω ἤ τρέχω. μόνον κάθημαι ὠς γέρων. φεύ. :D
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:35 pm

τῶν κορακων εν τῷ εμῷ κηπῷ κατῴκηκασι ηγειρα ἅμ` ἡρμέρᾳ.
ειδον ὅτι νεφελαι εκαλυπτε τον ουρανον.
νυν νεφελαι ἔτι καλυπε τον ουρανον.
Image
κορακες μεμ εισι καλοι, κραζουσι δε κακως.
Last edited by daivid on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:12 pm

εὐδίαν ἡμεῖς ἔχομεν ἐν τῇ νῦν ὥρᾳ. οὔτε γὰρ λίαν θερμός ἐστιν, οὔτε λίαν ψυχρός. δύναμαι οὖν, ὤσπερ Βεδωερε, βαδίζειν ἕξω. σύμφημι δὲ τῷ Σαύλῳ ὅτι τὸ βαδίζειν ὑγιεινόν ἐστιν.

daivid wrote:
κορακες μεμ εισι καλοι, κραζουσι δε κακως.


μισῶ μὲν οὖν τε τούς κόρακας τε τούς κόλακας.


ὁ μὲν κόραξ...
Image

ὁ δὲ κόλαξ.
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I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby bedwere » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:11 pm

Ἐν δὲ τῇ Διδακουπόλει ἀεὶ μαχή ἐστι μεταξὺ τοῦ Ὠκεανοῦ καὶ τῆς ἐρήμου. Ὅταν γὰρ ὁ Ὠκεανὸς νικᾷ, ὑγρός ἐστι καὶ αἱ νεφέλαι σκοτίζουσι τὸν ἥλιον. Ὅταν δὴ ἡ ἔρημος νικᾷ, ξερός ἐστι καὶ λάμπει ὁ ἥλιος.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:48 am

ὡς εἴωθα γράφω ὑμῖν περί τῶν οὐρανῶν.
σήμερον οὐδεμία νεφέλη φαίνεται ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ κατά τὸ εἰωθός ἐν τῷ μνημί τοῦ Ιουνίου. ἐνταύθα ὡς εἵωθε ἐν τῷ μεσημβρινῷ ἡμίσει τῆς γῆς ἔχομεν τὴν εὐδίαν.
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ὡς εἰώθει, ὁ Μᾶρκος ἐποίησεν σκῶμμα παρά γράμμα*· κόλαξ και κόραξ. ἐγέλασα λίαν.
οὐκ ἐστιν ὡς μύθος τις του Αεσοπου;

http://mythfolklore.net/aesopica/oxford/104.htm

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*σκῶμμα, ατος, τό, (σκώπτω) a jest, joke, gibe, scoff, Ar.; ἐν σκώμματος μέρει by way of a joke, Aeschin.; σκ. παρὰ γράμμα a pun, Arist.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:28 pm

Σαῦλος: ὡς εἰώθει, ὁ Μᾶρκος ἐποίησεν σκῶμμα παρά γράμμα*· κόλαξ και κόραξ. ἐγέλασα λίαν.
οὐκ ἐστιν ὡς μύθος τις του Αεσοπου;
http://mythfolklore.net/aesopica/oxford/104.htm


τὴν μὲν οὖν ἀλήθειαν εἶπας δή. ἐν γὰρ τόυτῳ τῷ τοῦ Αεσοπου μύθῳ, ὁ ἀλώπηξ κολακεύει τὸν κόρακα. τούτ ἐστιν ὁ κόραξ κολακέυεται. βλάπτεται οὖν κόραξ ὑπὸ κόλακος. κόλαξ κολακεύει κόρακα.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:41 am

σήμερον λίαν θερμὸς ἦν. τριάκοντα καὶ ἕξ κατὰ τὴν τοῦ Κελσίου κλίμακα. ἐπαίσαμεν οὖν ἐν τῷ ὕδατι ὁ ἐμὸς υἱὸς κἀγώ.

Image
ὁ τόπος ποῦ παίζομεν ὅταν θερμός ἐστιν.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:52 am

τήμερον αἱ νεφελαι ετι καλύπτει τον ουρανον. ευδοκω. δια τι; νυν ου βρεχει. αἱ αὗται νεφελαι ου οιαι τε εστι βρεχειν. επει ἀπίασι αἱ αὗται νεφελαι, νεαι νεφελαι βροχην φέρουσαι προςίασι.

Markos wrote: βλάπτεται οὖν κόραξ ὑπὸ κόλακος.

αρα ἐμέλλησας γράψαι "βλάπτεται";
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby bedwere » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:05 am

Ὧδε τὸ αὐτὸ καὶ χθές. Αὔριον δὲ ἀποπετήσομαι εἰς τὴν Οὐάσινγκτον, ὅπου ὕει.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:31 am

Μᾶρκε, σύ και ὁ τέκνον σου ἔπαισαν ἐν τῷ ὕδατι. ὑμείς ἤθελετε κολουμνᾶν διά τόν θερμόν ἀέρα. ὁ αὐτός υἱὸς εστιν ὅς εἴδομεν ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ κινουμένῃ;

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Δαιυιδ, κατέλαβον (συνῆκα) καλῶς; τὸ ἀπίασι σημαίνει ὅτι “Απέρχονται,” ναι;
διότι εἶπες οὔτως;
αἱ νεφέλαι (αἵ οὐκ ἕχουσι ὕδωρ) ἀπέρχονται. αἱ αὗται νεφέλαι οὐ παρἔχουσι βροχήν. ἄλλαι νεφέλαι ἔρχονται. αἱ ἄλλαι οἴσουσι βροχήν.

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αὐταί αἱ νεφέλαι οὐκ ἕχουσι ὕδωρ
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αὐται αἱ νεφέλαι οἴσουσι βροχήν.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:36 pm

ἔγραψεν ὁ Σαῦλος
Δαιυιδ, κατέλαβον (συνῆκα) καλῶς; τὸ ἀπίασι σημαίνει ὅτι “Απέρχονται,”


νομίζω ὅτι τὸ ἀπιέναι ἐστιν Ἀττικῇ λόγος καὶ τὸ ἀπέρχεσθαι ἐστιν Κοινῇ λόγος. σύμφητε δὲ ὑμεῖς?

ὁ αὐτός υἱὸς εστιν ὅς εἴδομεν ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ κινουμένῃ;
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ναί. οὗτός έστιν ὁ δεύτερος υἱός μου, Σεπαρδ. ἔχθες γε ἡμεῖς ἐκολυμβήσαμεν διὰ τὴν θερμασίαν.

ἔγραψεν ὁ Βεδωερε
Ἐν δὲ τῇ Διδακουπόλει ἀεὶ μαχή ἐστι μεταξὺ τοῦ Ὠκεανοῦ καὶ τῆς ἐρήμου.


ἐν τῇ ἐμῇ γῇ οὔτε ὠκεανὸς οὔτε ἔρημός ἐστιν. μόνον ὄρη ἔχομεν.

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τὰ ἐγγύς μου ὄρη.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:31 am

Σαῦλος wrote:Δαιυιδ, κατέλαβον (συνῆκα) καλῶς; τὸ ἀπίασι σημαίνει ὅτι “Απέρχονται,” ναι;
διότι εἶπες οὔτως;
αἱ νεφέλαι (αἵ οὐκ ἕχουσι ὕδωρ) ἀπέρχονται. αἱ αὗται νεφέλαι οὐ παρἔχουσι βροχήν. ἄλλαι νεφέλαι ἔρχονται. αἱ ἄλλαι οἴσουσι βροχήν.


Markos wrote:
ἔγραψεν ὁ Σαῦλος
Δαιυιδ, κατέλαβον (συνῆκα) καλῶς; τὸ ἀπίασι σημαίνει ὅτι “Απέρχονται,”


νομίζω ὅτι τὸ ἀπιέναι ἐστιν Ἀττικῇ λόγος καὶ τὸ ἀπέρχεσθαι ἐστιν Κοινῇ λόγος. σύμφητε δὲ ὑμεῖς?



αρα ου ὧδε: «ἀπέρχονται= νυν, ἀπίασι=αυριον»;
The ind. εἶμι usu. has pres. sense in Hom. (fut., Il.1.426, 18.280), but in Ion. Prose and Att. it serves as fut. to ἔρχομαι

ὧδε:
επει αἱ νεφέλαι (αἵ οὐκ ἕχουσι ὕδωρ) ἀπίασι, ἄλλαι νεφέλαι ἴασι. αἱ ἄλλαι οἴσουσι βροχήν.

ευχαριστω υμιν, ωφελειτε με.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:45 am

ειδον δια θυριδος χιονα.
επειτα ηγειρα - ονειρος ην.

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ὁ ἐμός κηπος αλλα ου τήμερον.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:58 pm

τήμερον ὁ ανεμος πνευει ἰσχρυότερος. ὁι κλάδοι (αλλα ου μεγιστοι|) κινουσι ὑπο τοῦ ανεμου - πεντε κατα κλῖμακα βωφορτου. ου βτεχει αλλα αυριον που οἴσω σκιάδειον.
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το σκιάδειον
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:54 pm

τήμερον οὐδέπω βέβρεκται αλλα ἡ τοῦ ἀέρος ὑγασία εστι ὀγδοήκοντα. ΚΝΝ αγγελει περι κινδυνου πῦρος εν τῇ Κολοραδᾳ. εἴθε μὴ ερχοιτο εγγυς τῆς σης οκιας.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:19 pm

σημερον οι σοφοι λεγουσι οτι βρεξει. ωφελιμον τουτο εσται μαχεσθαι κατα το εν Κολοραδο πυρ.

David wrote:
ΚΝΝ αγγελει περι κινδυνου πῦρος εν τῇ Κολοραδᾳ. εἴθε μὴ ερχοιτο εγγυς τῆς σης οκιας.


ευχαρσιστω σοι. το πυρ ουκ εστιν εγγυς της εμης οικιας, αλλα φιλους εχω εγγυς της εν κινδυνωι γης. αιτω ουν σε προσευχεσθαι υπερ αυτων.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:34 pm

τήμερον, τουτεῖ εχομεν αιθριαν και ἡ ἥλιος λαμπε. ουδεν νεφελαν ορω αλλα ὁ ανεμος εστι ισχυρος. το τοῦ ανεμου ταχος εστι εκατον και ἑκκαίδεκα σταδια κατα ωραν.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:00 pm

σήμερον μὲν οὖν ἐκλάμπει δὴ ὁ ἥλιος. οὐ πολλὰς δὲ νεφέλας ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ ὁρῶ. ὁ δ' ἀέρ θερμός ἐστιν.

ἐχθὲς τῆς νυκτὸς ὀλίγα ἔβρεχε. ἤλθον οὖν οἱ κώνοπες.


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ὁ κώνωψ.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:42 pm

ἐνταύθα, ἐρχομένων κωνόπων ἡ νόσος και τοῦ πυρετοῦ ἐρχεται.
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τέκνον ἔχει τὸν πυρετόν. αὕτη δε πυρέσσει.
τί παρέχει;



εἰ σημαίνω ὅτι “ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ χρόνῳ” (also), πότε θῶ το και? “ἡ και νόσος”;;;
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:56 pm

τέκνον ἔχει τὸν πυρετόν. αὕτη δε πυρέσσει.
τί παρέχει;


ὁ κώνωψ παρέχει τὸν πυρετὸν. ὁ γὰρ κώνωψ ἔχει νόσον. ὁ δὲ κώνωψ δάκνει τὸ τέκνον. νῦν οὖν ἔχει τὴν νόσον τὸ τέκνον. τὸν οὖν πυρετὸν δίδωσι ὁ κώνωψ.

εἰ σημαίνω ὅτι “ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ χρόνῳ” (also), πότε θῶ το και? “ἡ και νόσος”;;;


ναί, θὲς οὔτως.

{I am 100% convinced that where one places the καί here is not a matter of semantics (that is, the sentence would mean something different if you placed the καί elsewhere) or rules (that is, there is a "default" order where one would tend to find the καί.) Rather, every Greek sentence need to find it's own euphonic balance. There is simply a place where the καί feels right in connection to the surrounding words. (which are always different in any given sentence, and every given sentence is always different based on the preceding the sentences.) I am not denying that Greek word order can be used to provide emphasis or shades of meaning, nor that there are not some patterns. But an intrinsic quality of Greek is a commitment to stylistic variety, and the Greek naturally uses word order for this purpose. (as he does the tenses, synonyms, connectives, et al.)

I think in your case, yes, the Greek would very likely choose to break up the phrase ἡ νόσος τοῦ πυρετοῦ by inserting the καί in the middle of it. Then the Greek would "decide" (it would be intuitive, coming automatically) where does the verb now sound balanced best, at the beginning of the clause, or at the end (as you (I think rightly) choose to place it.)

I don't pretend to have in any way mastered the art of word order placement to make is sound like good, authentic Greek. I could never formulate the principles. But I am beginning to develop an intuitive grasp of "what sounds right." Like the guy on the Supreme Court said about pornography--I cannot define it, but I recognize it when I see it. And I only recognize it when I see it because I don't just see it, but I actively make it. (Greek word order now, I'm talking about, not pornography.)

What does all this have to do with our commitment to write about the weather in Greek every day? It is fundamental to our task. Paul, if you want to learn where the καί goes, you have to stop asking me, and you cannot look it up in LSJ or read a book about discourse particles or Greek word order. You HAVE to, you have no choice, you HAVE to write tons of Greek. You HAVE to experiment with Greek word order, try the καί out in few places. See how it FEELS there. Then, as you read tons of good, real Greek, you will notice where THEY place the καί and your fluency will deepen.

By "you" and "me," I don't, of course, mean you and me, and I am flattered that you would ask me these questions and I am happy to give you my thoughts. (particularly if we do so in Ancient Greek!) I mean the other people out there who have not yet made the transition from reading about to writing in Greek. I know that in your case I am preaching to the converted, but it's the idea that one would read a book (or God, forbid, because I know it happens, WRITE a book about Greek word order without learning to himself communicate in Greek, it's that idea that I am trying to refute. It's that idea that this thread is here to help bring down, or at least to challenge. End of sermon.}
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby daivid » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:41 pm

Σαῦλος wrote:ἐνταύθα, ἐρχομένων κωνόπων ἡ νόσος και τοῦ πυρετοῦ ἐρχεται.

αρα ἤλαξας «κωνώπων» εις «κωνόπων»;

ανεγνων βιβλον ἥ λεγει ὅτι δει ἡμᾶς μεμνησθαι τους αληθεις πολομιους ου οντας κώνωπας αλλα τα μικρα ζωα ἅ κὡνωπας φερει.
αρα ὁμολογεῖς;
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:48 am

Mark, χάριν εχω δια την αποκρίσιν σου.
ὑμεῖς οὐ ἀπεκρίθητε το μέγα ἐρώτημα μου·

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τί τὸ τέκνον προσἔχει ἐν ταις αὐτῆς χέρσι.
Last edited by Σαῦλος on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Σαῦλος » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:08 am

]σημερον τήν ευδίαν ἔχομεν. και γένεσις μου ἤν ταύτῇ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ, Ιουνιος πεντεκαιδεκα.

αρα ερωτᾶτε, Σαῦλε, ἔχεις ποσας ετη; ερῶ ὑμᾶς.



εγώ ακμάζω.
ἡ ακμή....


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εν βριττανική λέγομεν “εγω ειμι in the prime τοῦ βίου.”

2, 3, 5, 7,
11, 13, 17,
19, 23, 29,
31, 37, 41,
43, 47, 53,
59, 61, 67,
71, 73, 79,
83, 89, 97, 101…

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Re: What's the weather like where you live today (Greek)

Postby Markos » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:46 pm

σήμερον οὐ λίαν θερμός ἐστιν. 26.666666666666 κ.κ.Κ.

Σαῦλος
...43, 47, 53...


ἔχων μὲν οὖν τεσσαρόντα καὶ ἑπτὰ ἔτη, οὔτε γέρων εἶ, οὔτε νεανίας.

Δαιυιδ
ανεγνων βιβλον ἥ λεγει ὅτι δει ἡμᾶς μεμνησθαι τους αληθεις πολομιους ου οντας κώνωπας αλλα τα μικρα ζωα ἅ κὡνωπας φερει.
αρα ὁμολογεῖς;


ναί, πάνυ γε, ὡς μάλιστα, ἀλλὰ τὸ ὄνομα τούτων τῶν ζώων οὐκ οἶδα.

τί τὸ τέκνον προσἔχει ἐν ταις αὐτῆς χέρσι.

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λαγώς ἐστιν. πῶς λέγεται Ἑλληνιστὶ τὸ ὅπλον ἐν τῷ στόματι αὐτῆς?
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