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Are you learning Koine Greek, the Greek of the New Testament and most other post-classical Greek texts? Whatever your level, use this forum to discuss all things Koine, Biblical or otherwise, including grammar, textbook talk, difficult passages, and more.

Lead us not into temptation

Weighty issues of Greek and Latin translation are once again dominating the headlines.

On Wednesday, Pope Francis said the common rendering of one line in the prayer — “lead us not into temptation” — was “not a good translation” from ancient texts. “Do not let us fall into temptation,” he suggested, might be better.

French Catholics adopted that change this week, and the pope suggested that Italian Catholics might want to follow suit....

French bishops ...
Read more : Lead us not into temptation | Views : 234 | Replies : 11


Jeremiah in LXX vs. Hebrew Bible

While reading the Wikipedia article on Babylon, I checked a reference to Jeremiah 50-51. The text of the Bible translation I'm reading seems to be quite different what the LXX Greek text says. Apparently, the Greek and the Hebrew versions are quite different here, or can someone explain to me what's going on.

I reckon this is probably obvious to people who know their Scripture better than me...
Read more : Jeremiah in LXX vs. Hebrew Bible | Views : 529 | Replies : 18


εἰς = "with one's back turned"

It seems to be only a very small logical step from the meaning of "into" to that of "with one's back turned".

With a verb of motion, εἰς = "into". From the point of view of a person watching somebody go into somewhere, the person going in's back is turned. Substitute a verb of non-motion for a verb of motion, and we quite easily get "with one's back turned", or "facing towards". That is to ...
Read more : εἰς = "with one's back turned" | Views : 184 | Replies : 3


ἄγειν - verbs take or make the opportunity?

If the ἄγειν was more than a verb of motion and had to be either "take (the/this) opportunity to go", or "make (this/the) opportunity to go", how would one decide between the two meanings.
Read more : ἄγειν - verbs take or make the opportunity? | Views : 325 | Replies : 8


A "love" spell

Papyri magicae 4.350:

...ἄξον τὴν δεῖνα, ἣν δεῖνα, ἧς ἔχεις τὴν οὐσίαν, φιλοῦσάν με τὸν δεῖνα, ὃν ἔτεκεν ἡ δεῖνα· μὴ βινηθήτω, μὴ πυγισθήτω μηδὲ πρὸς ἡδονὴν ποιήῃ μετ’ ἄλλου ἀνδρός, εἰ μὴ μετ’ ἐμοῦ μόνου, τοῦ δεῖνα, ἵνα μὴ δυνηθῇ ἡ δεῖνα μήτε πεῖν μήτε φαγεῖν, μὴ στέργειν, μὴ καρτερεῖν, μὴ εὐσταθῆσαι, μὴ ὕπνου υχεῖν ἡ δεῖνα ἐκτὸς ἐμοῦ, τοῦ δεῖνα,...

Apparently a version of this in application is found on a Roman-era lead ...
Read more : A "love" spell | Views : 309 | Replies : 4


A letter of Hort

I have been reading the NT in Westcott and Hort's original edition (on PDF). It is such a pleasure. They print the verse and chapter numbers on the side, like the OCT, so as not to deface the text for reading, like modern Bibles do. The textual notes in the separate volume are detailed and interesting.

Liking the edition so much, I took a look at Hort's collected letters. And I thought that this was ...
Read more : A letter of Hort | Views : 264 | Replies : 4


Fun with Papyri

While researching something else, I came across this:

κυρίῳ μου ἀδελφῷ Ἀμμινέῳ
Σαμβᾶς.
ἐπειδὴ ὁ κύριός μου ὁ δεσποτικὸς
νοτάριος εὐτυχῶς σήμερον
ἐπιδημεῖν ἡμῖν μέλλει τῆς
τῶν τιρώνων συλλογῆς
ἕνεκεν καλῶς ποιήσεις κύρι
υ ἄδελφε̣, ἐκδέξασθαι τὰς

P.Abinn.: The Abinnaeus Archive: Papers of a Roman Officer in the Reign of Constantius II. (n.d.). Perseus Digital Library.

We'll never know what Ammineus was supposed to receive, but does this remind anyone of any particular biblical story ...
Read more : Fun with Papyri | Views : 253 | Replies : 3


Galatians read-through

I read Galatians last night and have some questions:

1:10 Ἄρτι γὰρ ἀνθρώπους πείθω ἢ τὸν θεόν;

πείθω is an interesting word for a Christian to use about God, isn't it? It especially surprised me in light of the "win the approval of" or "seeking the favor of" translations of this verse that I hear in church. I would think that the KJV's rendering "persuade" captures this better.

2:3 ἀλλ' οὐδὲ Τίτος ὁ σὺν ἐμοί, ...
Read more : Galatians read-through | Views : 309 | Replies : 3


Hebrew tenses in Greek translation [topic split]

Altair wrote:I have almost no academic background in the Greek, but happened to stumble on a site with various parallel translations of Genesis. I could read enough to be surprised at the degree of difference between them and to wonder about the sequence of tenses to render the Hebrew.

I read a very long time ago that there is something going on with the Hebrew tenses at the beginning of Genesis that is not captured ...
Read more : Hebrew tenses in Greek translation [topic split] | Views : 404 | Replies : 6


Acts 9:11-12. Inception

ἰδοὺ γὰρ προσεύχεται, καὶ εἶδεν ἄνδρα Ἁνανίαν ὀνόματι εἰσελθόντα καὶ ἐπιθέντα αὐτῷ χεῖρας ὅπως ἀναβλέψῃ

For behold, he is praying, and he perceived a man with the name Ananias having come in and having laid hands (upon him) so that he would see again.

I must be misunderstanding this. Just to fit the narrative I would have expected this to be more instructions to Ananias. (Behold, you will ...
Read more : Acts 9:11-12. Inception | Views : 502 | Replies : 7


 

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