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Exqistos in Iliad 1:176

e)/xqistoj de/ moi/ e)ssi....
You are the most hateful to me.

Does this mean that Agamemnon hates Achilles most of all, or that Agamemnon feels that Achilles hates him most of all?
Both instances are probably true, but this line likely would mean one or the other.
Read more : Exqistos in Iliad 1:176 | Views : 2399 | Replies : 1

Iliad 1:161

A few times I have been alerted to the fact that the dative case can show possession.
When I was reading Iliad 1:161, I Thought; "Aha! I know why moi is dative, it is a prize to me, ie; my prize.
The footnote in Pharr however indicates that the dative is to show that the thing is done to its (moi) disadvantage or advantage.
Here is the line: kai\ dh/ moi ge/raj au)to\j a)fairh/sesqai a)peilei=j, ...
Read more : Iliad 1:161 | Views : 4118 | Replies : 5

Pharr 1:149 Why a neuter adjective?

w)/ moi, a)naidei/hn e)pieime/ne, kerdaleo/fron,
I think that a)naidei/hn is in the accusative case because it acts as object of the participle e)pieime/ne. However, I don't understand why kerdaleo/fron is neuter (I assume it is nominative)
There is nothing neuter for it to modify. If it is neuter because it is an adverb, what verb is it modifying. It wouldn't be -craftily clothed with shamelessness- would it?
Read more : Pharr 1:149 Why a neuter adjective? | Views : 2905 | Replies : 2

Pharr 1:144 Subject vs predicate

ei(=j de/ tij a)rxoj a)nh\r boulhfo/roj e)/stw,
With the verb being right at the end of the phrase, how do you tell what is the subject and what the predicate? Or does it even matter?
"A man with discretion is to be the leader" is identical to "The leader is to be a man with discretion"
I probably would not have asked the question if a)nh\r was written before a)rxo\j because it makes more sense ...
Read more : Pharr 1:144 Subject vs predicate | Views : 4847 | Replies : 7

Pharr section 248 line 7

ou)/ tij )Axaiw=n pro/frwn pei/setai e)/pesin )agame/mnoni a)naidei/hn e)pieime/nw| kai\ kerdaleo/froni
I think the gist of this line is something like; No one of the Achaeans will eagerly obey the words of Agamemnon who is clothed in shamelessness, and crafty.
I don't understand why Agamemnon is in the dative case.
pei/qomai takes an object in the dative, that explains e)/pesin.
They are the words of Agamemnon, so why is agame/mnoni dative instead of genitive?
If ...
Read more : Pharr section 248 line 7 | Views : 4151 | Replies : 4

Reading Group Poll: Pharr or Minckwitz

I've been chatting with Jeff about the possibility of running a reading group for Homeric Greek. We were actually discussing this before the slew of reading group announcements for other groups. :)

In any case, my first thought is that we'd just use Pharr, and I have two advanced Textkit regulars who have already expressed interest in being guides for such a group, but we also have ...
Read more : Reading Group Poll: Pharr or Minckwitz | Views : 8787 | Replies : 22

subject in Iliad 1:127-128

...,au)tar )Axaioi\ triplh=| tetraplh=| t' a)poti/somen, ...What is the subject of a)poti/somen?
The form is 1st person pl. but )Axaioi\ is nominative.
Can this be combined to read - we Achaeans will repay you three or even four fold?
Read more : subject in Iliad 1:127-128 | Views : 2471 | Replies : 1

One more from Pharr section 223 (line 5)

)Axaioi\ e)kpe/rsousi polla\ e)k law=n poli/wn kai\ da/sontai pa/nta law=|
I translated this as follows; The Achaeans will plunder many things form the city of the people and they will divide all things among the host.
For this translation to be right, I would have expected law=n and poli/wn to be reversed.
Poli/wn would then be in the genitive because of the preposition, and law=n because of its function (ie. of the people).
Any comments?
Read more : One more from Pharr section 223 (line 5) | Views : 2939 | Replies : 2

Pharr section223 line 6

ou) dw/somen ge/raj )Agame/mnoni, ga\r e)/xome/n pou cunh/ia kei/mena .
I am having a bit of a hard time translating this line. Does it mean (very loosly) We will not give a prize to Agamemnon, for we do not have a common one lying around.
As you can tell, the trouble I am having is with the second phrase.
My translation seems a little to absurd to be correct.
Can someone give me some help?
Read more : Pharr section223 line 6 | Views : 2851 | Replies : 2

Pharr section 223 line 2

pa/ntej )Axaioi\ leu/ssousin o(/ti ge/raj )Agame/mnonoj e)/rxetai a)/llh| I think this line means something like; "All Achaeans are looking because the prize of Agamemnon is going elsewhere", or; "All Achaeans see that the prize of Agamemnon is going elsewhere".

First question- Is either one of these translations correct?
Second question- a)/llh| means elsewhere. Is this a dative form of a)/lloj with an implied noun?
I assume it is and this is why I translated -going ...
Read more : Pharr section 223 line 2 | Views : 4065 | Replies : 4


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