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Translation Il.1.124

This line has been irritating me for a very long while:

οὐδέ τί που ἴδμεν ξυνήια κείμενα πολλά

Pharr suggest Achilles is being ironic speaking πολλά and while english translations I've checked all have their own fancy, they all follow this meaning: "we don't know at all of many common stores lying around".

On the other hand, according to my lexicon "οὐδέ τί που" can mean "it's impossible!", and also keimai can be used to ...
Read more : Translation Il.1.124 | Views : 236 | Replies : 12


Martin West's Edition of the Odyssey

Saw Professor West at Ann Arbor, last Saturday. Here is the highlight of his talk: the reading with which he saves the Phaeacians from destruction.


Odyssey 13. 158

μέγα δέ σφιν ὄρος πόλει ἀμφικαλύψαι


West reads (following Aristarchus)


μηδέ σφιν ὄρος πόλει ἀμφικαλύψαι
Read more : Martin West's Edition of the Odyssey | Views : 228 | Replies : 1


Odyssey, Book 14

By the way of this chapter of the swineherd, what an imagination has
Odysseus for making false tales!



  1. 12. πυκνοὺς καὶ θαμέας, τὸ μέλαν δρυὸς ἀμφικεάσσας:


    How works the accusative here?

  2. ἐξαπίνης δ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα ἴδον κύνες ὑλακόμωροι.
    30. οἱ μὲν κεκλήγοντες ἐπέδραμον: αὐτὰρ Ὀδυσσεὺς
    ἕζετο κερδοσύνη, σκῆπτρον δέ οἱ ἔκπεσε χειρός.


    I don't get the meaning, why κερδοσύνη? What was the clever thing that
    Odysseus did against the dogs? ...
Read more : Odyssey, Book 14 | Views : 437 | Replies : 7


Trouble understanding critical apparatus

Continuation from this thread.

At 1.346, Van Thiel's Odyssey reads
"μῆτερ ἐμή, τί τ᾽ ἄρα φθονέεις ἐρίηρον ἀοιδὸν

The critical apparatus reads:
346 ἄρα D : ἂρ αὖ (= ψ 264), ἂρ ἂν F

I don't understand the apparatus. All the other editions just have τί τ᾽ ἄρα and don't even mention a variant (I checked the OCT, von der Mühll, Merry-Riddell, Ameis-Hentze-Cauer). The way I understand it, different readings are separated by a colon. ...
Read more : Trouble understanding critical apparatus | Views : 344 | Replies : 6


Pharr 3 edition / Smyth Greek Grammar Cross-References

Here is the rough draft of an Appendix to a commentary (Three Quarrels) I am finishing up on Book I. It is a companion to Pharr, a veritable "everything you ever wanted to know" about the Grammar and Morphology of Book I.

The Pharr references are to the 3rd Edition (1959), the one available on PDF online. Please excuse any infelicities. It has not been proofed, but may be of immediate use to present students ...
Read more : Pharr 3 edition / Smyth Greek Grammar Cross-References | Views : 188 | Replies : 0


Odyssey, Book 13

    184. ὣς ἔφαθ᾽, οἱ δ᾽ ἔδεισαν, ἑτοιμάσσαντο δὲ ταύρους.
    185. ὣς οἱ μέν ῥ᾽ εὔχοντο Ποσειδάωνι ἄνακτι
    186. δήμου Φαιήκων ἡγήτορες ἠδὲ μέδοντες,
    187. ἑσταότες περὶ βωμόν. ὁ δ᾽ ἔγρετο δῖος Ὀδυσσεὺς
    188. εὕδων ἐν γαίῃ πατρωΐῃ, οὐδέ μιν ἔγνω,


    But what happened with the good Phaenicians? Answer me!

    Oh, this is so unfair, and I'm sure the poet knows that: note the
    contrast at ὣς οἱ μέν...ὁ δ᾽, while the Phaenicians are in ...
Read more : Odyssey, Book 13 | Views : 539 | Replies : 14


Odyssey, Books 11 and 12




  1. 25. βόθρον ὄρυξ᾽ ὅσσον τε πυγούσιον ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα


    How should I read the last expression? Would you say that it is as
    accompanied by some gesture indicating the size of the hole?


  2. 134. πᾶσι μάλ᾽ ἑξείης. θάνατος δέ τοι ἐξ ἁλὸς αὐτῷ
    135. ἀβληχρὸς μάλα τοῖος ἐλεύσεται, ὅς κέ σε πέφνῃ


    Though the sense of the passage as a whole is clear (i.e. he will die
    of old), I'm not ...
Read more : Odyssey, Books 11 and 12 | Views : 353 | Replies : 7


Hectors last wish

Dear forum members, first of all i would like to apologize in advance for my english. I am not a native speaker but i try to manage! I have a question About the part in the illiad which contains the last wish of hector: μὴ μὰν ἀσπουδί γε καὶ ἀκλειῶς ἀπολοίμην,
ἀλλὰ μέγα ῥέξας τι καὶ ἐσσομένοισι πυθέσθαι. Is the spelling correct? how do you feel About the punctuation? And what is the translation? Thanks ...
Read more : Hectors last wish | Views : 243 | Replies : 1


Response to Paul D. from the Demosthenes thread

Paul D. wrote the following in the thread on Demosthenes' De Corona:

The gap between the preserved text and the speech as actually delivered is a interesting question. Isn't it similar in many respects to the question of how the Homeric epics were written down? (Personally, I don't believe that the Homeric epics are somehow magically different from all the other ancient texts, just because they were "oral". As if everything weren't more or less ...
Read more : Response to Paul D. from the Demosthenes thread | Views : 266 | Replies : 2


Transformation to direct speech needed!

Hello,
can someone please help me to transform the blue verse below into direct speech?
It was Alexander's favourite verse from the Ilias.
It means: "to be brave, and to take the lead in the ranks of the foremost"

Here you can find it: XI, 784 (or VI, 208)

Πηλεὺς μὲν ᾧ παιδὶ γέρων ἐπέτελλ᾽ Ἀχιλῆϊ
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν καὶ ὑπείροχον ἔμμεναι ἄλλων:

The result should be: Be brave, and take the lead in the ranks ...
Read more : Transformation to direct speech needed! | Views : 603 | Replies : 17


 

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