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Helmut van Thiel's Ilias

I received my copy of van Thiel in the mail today, and have been having great fun looking through it. It's going to take me some time to read through the introduction, as my German is not good. On his website is a copy of the D-scholia, (and somewhere a version of the Iliad without accents, according to the introduction, but I was not able to find it).

However, I was sad to see this ...
Read more : Helmut van Thiel's Ilias | Views : 145 | Replies : 2


Odyssey, Book 15, 16, 17 and 18

Hello everybody, I hope you can help me with these questions that I've being accumulating on my notes. Thanks for the help, as always.

    Book 15



  1. εὗρε δὲ Τηλέμαχον καὶ Νέστορος ἀγλαὸν υἱὸν
    5. εὕδοντ᾽ ἐν προδόμῳ Μενελάου κυδαλίμοιο,
    ἦ τοι Νεστορίδην μαλακῷ δεδμημένον ὕπνῳ:


    Merry says:

    There is an apparent contradiction: ‘she found both sleeping... but
    Telemachus was not sleeping.’ It may remind us of the famous
    contradiction about Zeus, between Il.1. ...
Read more : Odyssey, Book 15, 16, 17 and 18 | Views : 236 | Replies : 5




Iliad Bk 1, line 427

Hi, I'm trying to understand why καί μιν γουνάσομαι καί μιν πείσεσθαι ὀΐω was translated by AT Murray (Loeb) as "and i will clasp his knees and i think i will persuade him."

πείσεσθαι is the future middle infinitive of the verb πείθω and this verb in the middle means 'trust in, believe in, obey'.

So why wouldn't the correct translation be "and i will clasp his knees and i think i will obey him". ...
Read more : Iliad Bk 1, line 427 | Views : 355 | Replies : 2


Translation Il.1.124

This line has been irritating me for a very long while:

οὐδέ τί που ἴδμεν ξυνήια κείμενα πολλά

Pharr suggest Achilles is being ironic speaking πολλά and while english translations I've checked all have their own fancy, they all follow this meaning: "we don't know at all of many common stores lying around".

On the other hand, according to my lexicon "οὐδέ τί που" can mean "it's impossible!", and also keimai can be used to ...
Read more : Translation Il.1.124 | Views : 599 | Replies : 12


Martin West's Edition of the Odyssey

Saw Professor West at Ann Arbor, last Saturday. Here is the highlight of his talk: the reading with which he saves the Phaeacians from destruction.


Odyssey 13. 158

μέγα δέ σφιν ὄρος πόλει ἀμφικαλύψαι


West reads (following Aristarchus)


μηδέ σφιν ὄρος πόλει ἀμφικαλύψαι
Read more : Martin West's Edition of the Odyssey | Views : 391 | Replies : 1


Odyssey, Book 14

By the way of this chapter of the swineherd, what an imagination has
Odysseus for making false tales!



  1. 12. πυκνοὺς καὶ θαμέας, τὸ μέλαν δρυὸς ἀμφικεάσσας:


    How works the accusative here?

  2. ἐξαπίνης δ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα ἴδον κύνες ὑλακόμωροι.
    30. οἱ μὲν κεκλήγοντες ἐπέδραμον: αὐτὰρ Ὀδυσσεὺς
    ἕζετο κερδοσύνη, σκῆπτρον δέ οἱ ἔκπεσε χειρός.


    I don't get the meaning, why κερδοσύνη? What was the clever thing that
    Odysseus did against the dogs? ...
Read more : Odyssey, Book 14 | Views : 835 | Replies : 10


Trouble understanding critical apparatus

Continuation from this thread.

At 1.346, Van Thiel's Odyssey reads
"μῆτερ ἐμή, τί τ᾽ ἄρα φθονέεις ἐρίηρον ἀοιδὸν

The critical apparatus reads:
346 ἄρα D : ἂρ αὖ (= ψ 264), ἂρ ἂν F

I don't understand the apparatus. All the other editions just have τί τ᾽ ἄρα and don't even mention a variant (I checked the OCT, von der Mühll, Merry-Riddell, Ameis-Hentze-Cauer). The way I understand it, different readings are separated by a colon. ...
Read more : Trouble understanding critical apparatus | Views : 558 | Replies : 6


Pharr 3 edition / Smyth Greek Grammar Cross-References

Here is the rough draft of an Appendix to a commentary (Three Quarrels) I am finishing up on Book I. It is a companion to Pharr, a veritable "everything you ever wanted to know" about the Grammar and Morphology of Book I.

The Pharr references are to the 3rd Edition (1959), the one available on PDF online. Please excuse any infelicities. It has not been proofed, but may be of immediate use to present students ...
Read more : Pharr 3 edition / Smyth Greek Grammar Cross-References | Views : 335 | Replies : 0


Odyssey, Book 13

    184. ὣς ἔφαθ᾽, οἱ δ᾽ ἔδεισαν, ἑτοιμάσσαντο δὲ ταύρους.
    185. ὣς οἱ μέν ῥ᾽ εὔχοντο Ποσειδάωνι ἄνακτι
    186. δήμου Φαιήκων ἡγήτορες ἠδὲ μέδοντες,
    187. ἑσταότες περὶ βωμόν. ὁ δ᾽ ἔγρετο δῖος Ὀδυσσεὺς
    188. εὕδων ἐν γαίῃ πατρωΐῃ, οὐδέ μιν ἔγνω,


    But what happened with the good Phaenicians? Answer me!

    Oh, this is so unfair, and I'm sure the poet knows that: note the
    contrast at ὣς οἱ μέν...ὁ δ᾽, while the Phaenicians are in ...
Read more : Odyssey, Book 13 | Views : 755 | Replies : 14


 

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